Tail and body curled up?

[a.m.]

I've had my Chinese firebelly for around four to five years or so now and, for maybe the past six to seven months, he's been exhibiting an odd few bends in his body and his tail is often completely curled into itself.

He still eats well and seems to prefer his terrestrial setup - a little hill region of gravel in the corner of his tank, surrounded by water. He'll eagerly run back into the water to eat, though.

He's been on a staple diet of frozen Hikari bloodworms for years now, as has my paddletail, who is in perfect condition and almost as old. My firebelly has maybe an inch or a bit more of water to move through when he wants to, which isn't often when there's no food for him. The odd body shape seems to have nearly rendered his back legs useless, as when he moves about, he's often on the verge of flipping over and getting stuck lying on his back, which has happened quite a lot over the months, but not as much recently.

Some of you have suggested Melafix, but I'm not sure about trying it for luck, as I don't know exactly what is wrong with him. Some pictures are included for reference as to his shape.

So, in short - any idea how/if this condition can be fixed or helped in any way? Or, at the very least, what it is? Thanks in advance.

 

[jonathan]

anybody seen c.o. stay curled like that?

 

[coen]

That looks like MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease).

Did you give additional vitamins and calcium to your newt? Did you only gave him the frozen bloodworms? My marmoratus has recently died because of this, so action is neccesary if it is indeed MBD.

 

[a.m.]

He's been living for quite a few months with this condition and still seems to be going strong despite it.

He's only been eating the frozen bloodworms for years now, as has my paddletail. He hasn't ever had additional vitamins or calcium, as I'm not sure what to look for in those, how to apply them, and whatever else to do with them. Any additional information on this is appreciated.

Thanks for the response.

 

[jennifer]

I remember seeing similar problems, so I did a quick search of the archives:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/54768.html
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/39986.html
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/76429.html

I also found your previous post of the same issue:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/74617.html

I would suggest varying the diet for both of your newts. Feeding one food for years is usually not a good idea. If the paddletail will eat pellets, those normally have a proper calciumhosphorous ratio. Is the firebelly willing to feed from a stick or tweezers? If so, you can get him to eat almost anything.

If the spinal kink is caused by MBD, there is nothing you can do about it, other than maybe prevent it from getting worse over time.

 

[a.m.]

I have a vendetta against pellet foods, as the newts I've had in the past ate them and the pellets then expanded within their bowels and blocked them up, causing them to die.

The firebelly eats freely from my hand, so I'm sure a stick or tweezers wouldn't be difficult to get him used to either. What do you recommend trying to feed him?

And, I've heard recommendations of a calcium-enriched powder that is usually used on reptiles that might be able to be used on newt food as well; so, if there's any way that might be able to help him, could you also tell me about that? Ie, what's a good brand to use, how to use it, etc.

 

[jennifer]

Here's an article by our own dear EdK:
http://www.tracyhicks.com/MBD.htm
If you do some web searches, you can find loads of other info on the basics of calcium supplementation for herps. Do you have any good (non-chain store) pet shops that sell herps locally? In terms of recommendations for calcium products, it's probably better to start with "what's available". Pay attention to expiration dates, as vitamins decay in the presence of calcium.

Regarding pellets, I've never heard of that happening before. Is it possible that the newts that ate the pellets died of bloat, perhaps not caused by the pellets? Were they the Newt Bites kind of pellets? Rangen salmon pellets are used and recommended by the Axolotl Colony as a staple food, so I have a high degree of confidence in these pellets, both in nutrition and safety.

 

[a.m.]

They're ReptoMin pellets, and I also have ReptoMin baby shrimp, but they won't eat those or the Vitaworms anymore. They're a little spoiled.

I'm not sure what exactly it was that they died of, but they had all eaten the pellets, and as soon as I stopped feeding my new ones any pellets, they started lasting much longer, including these two.

The only pet store we have in the area is a Petland, which isn't the best pet store around, especially since most of the newts they sell are already emaciated, missing limbs, or otherwise ill or dead.

 

[a.m.]

Update time! Excitement abounds.

Today, I went out and bought around 15 mealworms to arrange a little variety in the diet of my paddletail and firebelly. I know they're not the best alternative and not incredibly nutritious, but they're being fed very sparingly with frozen bloodworms so the nutrients are kept. They're being fed like treats, basically.

My paddletail can't get enough of them. He ate three before I decided no more were necessary and my Chinese firebelly has never been a world-class hunter, so he only managed to down a very small worm before his main course of bloodworms was served. There now remain roughly ten mealworms, some of which were dead on purchase.

Petland does sell crickets, but I've always had awful luck with the little creatures. They managed to escape quite often the last time I tried them. Is there some trick to keeping crickets confined within your newt's terrarium? And for when they're not in the tank, what's the best way to keep them under control and nutritiously alive outside? Petland also sells Gut Load, which I've heard is a good vitamin supplement for mealworms and crickets, but I didn't buy any as I don't have the means to house the insects for a long period of living time just now.

Other than that, the pet shop doesn't sell anything very calcium-filled. When it isn't quite so frigid outside, I'm thinking of going to a pet store further down the road, where I remember them having a better selection of newt foods.

Also, are there any tricks to serving up mealworms properly? Any precautions I should take? Any superior methods to getting the docile little firebelly interested in catching his food? (Because God knows the paddletail doesn't need it.)

Thanks!

 

[jim]

You didn't mention it, so I'm not sure if you know you need to pinch the heads off of the mealworms before feeding. Those mandibles can harm newts and sals even from the inside. As far as crickets go, I keep them in a critter keeper or 2.5g aquarium but there are numerous specialty items out there for them. If you don't gut load them you need to at least dust them before feeding.

 

[nicole]

how big are the mealworms? If they are the tiny, baby ones you should be okay. I was told by my pet store that if I got the big ones I had to cut off their head. Of course, that was for my fire-bellied toads. They said that the worms could actually eat from the inside out. And of course, once you cut off their head (which was way nasty) the mealworms are dead. My toads wouldn't touch them because they were dead. Luckily, the pet store took back my leftovers and gave me crickets. As for the baby mealworms, I kept them in the container in the refrigerator until I was ready to feed the crew.

 

[a.m.]

The mealworms are about half an inch or less in length and easily consumed within about thirty seconds. They were also dead before they were eaten, as I fed them to my newts in the water and they drowned pretty quickly. My firebelly took so long to catch his baby worm that it started to float away toward his filter's current and had to quickly be caught and submerged for him. Poor guy.

Considering that they're fed in the water, is it possible to dust the mealworms or crickets with reptile calcium supplements beforehand, or will the dust wash off in the water? My paddletail is completely aquatic and my firebelly won't eat on land, so terrestrial feeding is pretty much out of the question.

 

[nicole]

Their size is fine. The dust i use washes off in the water and creates a real mess. Have you tried getting earthworms or nightcrawlers? The pet stores around me don't sell them but I go to a bait shop and buy them there.

 

[a.m.]

I meant to get those at Petland, but when I asked the guy who served me, he said the only feeder insects they sell are crickets and mealworms. We don't have a bait shop around here, but I still plan on checking out the other pet shop I mentioned when the weather isn't nearly as freezing.

I've got a small potato slice in the mealworm habitat so they can survive as long as they need to before yum-yum time. I don't think I'll ever need to keep enough mealworms to justify getting a large terrarium/gut-loading them, but we'll see.

 

[jennifer]

Unfortunately, there is no way to dust food that is fed underwater.

When you say that crickets escaped from your newt's tank... how small were the crickets? I fear that if a cricket can get out of the newt's tank, so can the newt.

It's hard to believe that you don't have a bait shop. Have you looked in the business listings in the phone book? Do you have a Walmart?

 

[a.m.]

The crickets were rather small, but it was years ago that we last fed them. They may very well have simply crept out of a tiny slit between the tank cover and the tank itself, or jumped out when the cover was opened. Neither the paddletail nor the firebelly have ever been avid climbers, in some six-ish years now.

I live in a valley, with no real fish-bearing lakes around. If we do have any bait shops, they're likely very far from where I live - downtown, maybe, which isn't an option to drive to because of how far away it is. A neighbouring city is situated right on top of a lake and has a bait shop, but it's about an hour and a half away, which isn't feasible in the bitter winter. We do have a Walmart, but I've never seen any fishing/bait sections. Next time I drop by, I may look, though.

Today, the newts were fed more worms, who've been living on a diet of potatoes and apples that they seem to enjoy. They poop all over it and burrow in, so I guess that's wormish for 'thanks'. The paddletail got two mealworms about a half inch long, while the firebelly got one large, fat worm that was decapitated and cut in half for easier feeding. He was eager to eat them down.

 

[nicole]

Don't get your hopes up about Wal-mart. The Super Wal-mart by me doesn't carry any type of bait.