Taricha troubles

[matt]

Hello. I've been aware of this site for a long time, but didn't realize it had a forum until now. I've got a Taricha (named Zooba) but I've been having some trouble IDing his species. I know you've seen this issue a billion times before, but even after reading info and viewing pics, I can't decide on his species. Do I have a granulosa or a torosa? If you need me to take some better pics, just let me know what you need to see.

 

[paris]

its pretty certain that if you bought it off the pet trade or were given it from someone who did then it is a granulosa. torosas are limited to the state of california and are not allowed commercial collection ,private collection of them can be done with a fishing permit-but you must go there yourself or be given them freely (not traded) from someone who collected them. granulosas are generally more aquatic than torosas also. yours also looks like a typical granulosa (darker upper eye lid)--here is a link to a thread about mine from orange county-there are definitely torosa torosa (i avoided collection in any area where grans were reported to occur so i had no chance of a hybrid)
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/31.html?1111025227

 

[pin-pin]

90% T. granulosa if you didn't collect it yourself.

The colouration seems more like T. granulosa. If you can look into his mouth for either a Y or V volmerine teeth (it's a bit hard).

If they've laid eggs then it is a sure way to identify them, as T. granulosa lay a single egg, while T. torosa lays a cluster of eggs.

 

[mike]

Here's a useful behavioral observation:
"When assuming an intense unken posture (one should tap repeatedly on the dorsum to induce this), T.torosa holds the tail tip out straight, whereas T.granulosa curls the tail tip into a single coil." (Reimer 1958)
I have heard that Pin-pin only has to talk to them severely for them to "unken reflex"

 

[matt]

Cool, yeah, I thought I had read somewhere that torosas were more restricted, but wasn't sure how exactly. Mine would be granulosa then. I'll have to try to get an unken reflex out of him though. It'd make a neat photo at least too. So is it true that granulosa is less toxic than torosa? My newt could be the deadliest on the planet for all I care, I was just curious.

 

[pin-pin]

Heya Mike, I have sadly not been able to induce a full unken reflex in any Taricha species. Trust me, I've done quite a lot--including prying their mouth open (to check their teeth), measuring them, checking their gender

. Tarichas have been the most relaxed newts that I've handled. I suppose it does have something to do with their incredible toxin.

Matt> It's backwards. T. granulosas are the ones who are the most toxic of the Taricha family. A good site to check out is Wes' Newt toxin page:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/newt_toxins.shtml

 

[mike]

Hey Pin-pin,
Well you're the expert, I don't have any practical experience with these newts, (although I would like to have).

I suppose if you are a Taricha you can afford to be laid

back.