Terrestris or nominate

[ester]

I know I've asked this before. Perhaps the animal is big enough now to tell the difference.

The animal was sold as CB offspring of salamandra s. terrestris.

 

[paul]

Hi Ester,

not typical for terrestris!
But sometimes I found untypical coloured animals in a terrestris population.
Paul

(Message edited by paul_b on February 05, 2006)

 

[ester]

Thanks, that's what I have been thinking. The book "Der Feuersalamander" also shows non-typical examples. I bought all three of my fire sals at the same time from the same seller. The other two I have were both smaller when I bought them, they're still one cm behind in length. They are more typical where their pattern is concerned.
I find it really hard to figure out the differentiating features between nominate and terrestris even after reading that book.

 

[francesco]

Looks a normal s. s. salamandra to me

Can you post pictures of the 2 brothers?

 

[paul]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Francesco Spallone wrote on Sunday, 05 February, 2006 - 12:20 :</font>

"Looks a normal s. s. salamandra to me"<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I agree! It looks typical like nominat form.
Only the problem is, that not all terrestris are coloured like terrestris.
But perhaps other indication. I never saw a S.s.terrestris which was longer then 18,5 cm - but usual in S.s.salamandra.
On the other hand, we have a broad overlapping area in central Europe. Paul

 

[edward]

I have some concerns about this attempting to identify to the subspecific level animals of unknown identification. If the identification is incorrect then the animals or thier offspring could be crossed into known lines causing problems with managing species longterm in captivity.
This needs to be taken into consideration when attempting to identify the subspecies.


Ed

 

[paul]

Ed I agree!
We never should mix different species or subspecies - and more then this. We should take more care in breeding Urodela on "locality level"!
But therefore it would be necessary to register them international.
Paul

 

[edward]

Hi Paul,
I agree. There is actually a database being developed to help track Dendrobatid species down as far as import to try and maximize genetic diversity in the private sector. This is being developed with the goal that it can be expanded to cover other species down the road...

Ed

 

[ester]

When I bought these salamanders last year I didn't know better than that they were S.s.t. Like the paperwork that came with em said (all these animals have to be registered, offspring has to be registered as well). However, on the forum here people suggested they might be nominate form. However, at around 8 cm they were still pretty young. I was told it might be more clear when they are bigger/older. As the animal I am most uncertain about is now 15 cm I figured I'd post a picture and see if it would be possible to tell the difference now. It seems things are still a bit unclear.