To guppy or not to guppy?

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bitenomnom

Axolotl Enthusiast
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Amanda
I was thinking of starting a tank of guppies to breed and feed to my axolotls. I thought, though, that first I would like to see if anyone here has any stories of particular success or lack thereof. How often do you feed your axies guppies compared to nightcrawlers/earthworms, etc.? I thought it would be a nice option in case I ever have to be gone for a while or to give them a little entertainment if they wanted to hunt.

What would you recommend for a good setup? I was planning on something fairly simple and mostly relying on a "survival of the fittest" type guppy-breeding system where I don't make any particular effort to save the fry, and let the ones that live, live and the ones that get eaten, get eaten. (Assuming that there would be an eventual net increase in population.) I would keep them well-fed, though, of course (or else what good would they be to the axolotls?).

The idea seems particularly appealing to me because my boyfriend and his family keep fish, and he has offered to give me fish flakes as often as I need (since they buy them in bulk) and I have a spare small tank sitting around. But I don't know anything about the nutritional value of guppies for axolotls or their success in catching/eating them, so I thought I'd ask around here first.
 
Hi Amanda,

I would recommend what you do is to breed your guppies in a separate tank altogether. House male and female guppies in a tank set up most conducively for them and provide some water plants etc. That would ensure the best breeding outcome.

You can then also control how many guppies and whether males or females, be placed in your axie tank. I recommend that you put in guppies of a single sex each time. If there are male and female guppies in the main tank, and an elusive pair evades being captured, they can breed in the tank. The downsides to this is that some guppies are prolific breeders and there is a chance that their breeding rate surpass their being eaten rate. This can cause overstocking in the tank, leading to water parameter problems.

How many guppies going into the axie tank depends on the size of the tank as well. For a start, i would go for around 3-5 guppies.

Cheers
 
Guppies are very poor nutritionally and should not be used as a staple diet - they are a good snack food though. Guppies will provide lots of entertainment, exercise and stimulation for the happy hunters.

I don't use guppies (or any other feeder fish) myself. But a lot of members do, and their accounts can be found in this thread for your reading pleasure.
 
I was also considering doing this but can't quite afford to atm. I bought 4 guppies to test them out with my axies. Within the first 5 minutes of entering the tank, two were eaten. My axies are lazy but the guppies would swim right up to their faces. It's kind of fun to watch too, more entertaining than sports.
You should update on how it goes, might inspire me to stop being lazy and try it
 
Any feeder fish should be quarantined for 30 days before feeding to your axolotls. You never know what diseases or bacteria they may be carrying.
 
I have a seperate breeding tank for my guppies, I started off with 1 male and 3 females.

I also do the "survival of the fittest" thing, as long as there are some good hiding places, ie, plants and rocks, where the adults etc can't get to them, you should have a good few that survive. just feed them on normal guppy flakes, oh and don't use any chemicals you wouldn't use on your 'lotl!

Once they get to a decent size, a bit smaller then adult, I scoop them out and put them in Penny's tank. I think the most I've ever put in is 5 at a time, she tends to eat a few quite quickly. Personally I think it's good to have a back up plan, when the guppies tank gets over stocked I have a few friends that take some of the babies, so I don't have to keep putting them in Penny's tank, and over stocking that.

I still feed pellets and worms as a staple, as mentioned above guppies aren't the most nutrious, though good as a snack. Plus they make the tank look lively, if that makes sense. XD

Oh one last thing, I suggest not naming them. My first babies I named and got pretty attached to them. :sad:

Please update on you decision!

Mitz x
 
I know we're talking about food here, but I always believed that guppys become quite stressed at temperatures below 23 degrees celsius. Surely there are other species that can be used as feeder fish such as whitecloud mountain minnows which are more tollerant of cold water.
 
Thanks for all the feedback and help, guys!

I was planning on keeping them in a separate tank that would probably be in a warmer area than my axolotl tank. A 30-day quarantine would be practically required even if I didn't want to (which I do), as I would have to wait for a new round of guppies before I could feed them to my axolotls (their mouths may be a bit too small for a fully grown guppy).

All right. I was figuring I would still be using nightcrawlers for the staple diet but I wasn't sure if guppies were more on the order of "treat only" versus "every so often is okay." Mainly the guppies seemed like a good idea for short vacations, or long weekends, where I might not be there to feed them. (I know they don't need to eat THAT often, but I'm sure if they'd prefer not to go four days without food.) So I will plan on them being an occasional snack. How should they compare proportionally, approximately? Would feeding guppies, say, once for every five or six feedings of worms/pellets be reasonable? (Like a 14-17% guppy diet content?) Or is that still too much?

I figure it's a relatively low-risk situation. If my tank becomes overpopulated and they start breeding faster than I feed, my boyfriend will take them for himself. (He has been using them in a hydroponics setup.) I'll have backup "vacation" food ready to go when I need it

Whitecloud mountain minnows? I will look into those. But I figured that since they will be spending most of their time in a warmer (70-75 degree) tank, and that is in a reasonable range for guppies, it would be fine even if they spent a whole day or two in my axie tank (which realistically will probably not be colder than 65 degrees). Right?


Is there any part of the guppies' diet I could manipulate to make them somewhat more nutritious? (Like a kind of flake that would be better than another, or something I could use to supplement the flakes?)
 
I've been raising White Cloud Mtn. Minnows for many years. They thrive in cooler temps. and are ready egg layers if given plants(plastic or live java moss have all worked for me). They don't eat their young(generally). They swim at the top(fry lurk there) or in the middle of the water column. They are not fussy about food or water temp. My observation is they prefer a cooler tank. Mine seem to be slow growers.
They maybe worth a try.
I don't use mine for feeder fish. They're my kids pets.
I think guppies will give you more offspring than White Clouds.
 
I'd advise against the White Clouds, they will nip at the Axolotls gills. I once put a couple in my axies tank for a snack and watched them closely - it took about 10 seconds for one of them to swim down and nip at a gill (needless to say, the white clouds came out immediately!).
 
Yes, gill nipping would be one of my concerns with any fish. I hear that guppies usually aren't a big problem as far as that issue goes, though.
 
Jacquie said:
Guppies are very poor nutritionally...
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that this is entirely true. Goldfish are considered nutritionally poor due to thiaminase and also the kinds of fats they store; staple diets of goldfish are associated with 'fatty liver disease'. But I think guppies are considered to be OK nutritionally (or at least better than goldfish). They have a good amount of calcium, which is one factor in their favor. I've been googling, trying to find some info on the nutritional value of guppies, but haven't come up with anything solid. But if you want to use feeder fish, homegrown guppies are probably the best bet. But as Jacq said, probably best as a snack, not a staple.
 
I will have to agree with Jen on this one. The main concern with feeding fish is thiaminase and resulting thiamine deficiency. Thiaminase is most abundant in any 'white flesh' fish. As for fatty liver disease (hepatic liposis), they are attributed to any high fat diets for a prolonged period, hence untrimmed offal, mealworms and fatty goldfish are notable culprits. With most other carnivorous species, a high fat diet can also result in pancreatitis. I am not sure if this is an issue with axies but i would rather err on the side of caution and feed any fatty treats very very occasionally if ever.
 
I was also trying to find more info on the nutritional value of guppies; glad to know I'm not crazy for not having found any particularly satisfying results. But for safety's sake, as Rayson suggests, I will err on the side of caution and make them treat/occasional snack food only if I do indeed start breeding some.

I've also heard that mosquitofish are good? Are they any better/worse nutritionally than guppies? They seem awfully similar so I would venture to guess not, but I'm no fish expert. Also I would again guess that gill nipping isn't a problem with them, but I'd rather find out from someone who knows for sure. I have no idea if they are commonly carried by any pet stores/my LFS, but thought I'd consider the option if I do find them somewhere.
 
I will br trying mosquitofish instead of guppies as well. I hear they are more prolific than guppies and tend to keep better in the cooler temps that axies like. They, as their name suggests, eat mosquito larvae from the top of the water, so they do well on flakes. They tend to stay more-so towards the top of the water columns than towards the bottom. Their mouth is also very high up on their head because of them being top-feeders, so they would have to turn almost upside down to nip at an axie. It would be very odd to see these guys come all the way down in the tank just to nip at a axosaurus lurking at the bottom. I dont know of anyone that sells them locally and have never seen them, but I know there are some people on Ebay that sell them. You can also check aquabid.com. They may have some from breeders on there also.

Mark
 
Markw said:
Heres a lot of 25 off ebay for $13+$20 to ship.

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-live-Mosquit...c0.m14&_trkparms=65:1|66:4|39:1|293:1|294:200


And an information page about them..
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/mosq.htm#prolific

Mark
Click to expand...
Oh! Thank you! Haha, yes, I suppose with their mouths that high up they would look quite silly trying to nibble an axolot's gills! The eating from the surface sounds like it would definitely be an advantage. I'll take a look at the info page.

I was hoping I would be able to find them locally! But I suppose they would have little appeal as pets (for pet stores) when compared to fancy guppies. I hadn't thought of checking eBay. Bit pricey because of the shipping, though. Guess I'll have to look around a bit, just in case.
 
Most states offer them for free to control the mosquito population. Contact whoever is in charge of the local mosquito control and ask them if they have some available.

Mark
 
Just thought I would mention that in the UK feeder fish may be illegal but I am not sure and I know it doesn't apply to the poster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeder_fish said:
In the UK, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 prohibits deliberate and “unnecessary suffering” to animals, but contrary to widespread belief, it does not explicitly outlaw the feeding of live feeder fish to other fish. However, it does prohibit introducing two animals for the purpose of “fighting, wrestling or baiting”. Nonetheless, the assumption is that a legal case could be made to class the use of feeder fish as a “fight” and though as-yet untried in the courts, the risk of such a prosecution has led many retailers and hobbyists simply to treat the use of feeder fish in the UK as illegal.
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeder_fish
 
What do you feed snakes in the UK then? And the poster is in Nebraska, USA. So, it doesnt apply to them.

Mark
 
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