Triturus carnifex macedonicus

[Jay Redbond]

Hello All,

I have noticed a lot of threads recently talking about Triturus carnifex macedonicus, so just though I would share some pictures of my Juveniles with you all. The male is just starting to develop its crest and they are monsters much larger than any other crested newt I have kept even Triturus karelinii.

Hope you like the pictures.:happy:

Jay

 

[Azhael]

If you hadn´t said they are T.macedonicus i would have assummed they were T.arntzeni because of the large and abundant iridophores :S Then again, T.macedonicus are described as highly variable and possibly ressembling any other species from the cristatus complex, which makes things soooo easy xD
Do you have locality data for your animals? If you do, that´s GOLD!
I´m really starting to despair with Triturus lately...more often than not, when it comes to T.carnifex, T.karelinii, T.macedonicus or T.arntzeni, we have no idea of what exactly we have in the hobby.
Sorry to go a bit off topic but i´d like to take the opportunity to say that if people manage to find cristatus complex Triturus with reliable locality data, those are some precious animals.

They do look fantastic. How big are your subadults if i may ask? I love it when Triturus are large and heavy, they are like flamboyant submarines with legs, and when the really large females are gravid they are a sight to be beheld.

 

[Jay Redbond]

They were given to me by Jean Raffaelli so I could find out the locality of them. The
male is 17cm and both females are 18cm.

I agree though it is a tricky one, I will look into locality and maybe do the genetics at some point with all my Triturus and see what comes up.

Jay

 

[Azhael]

Ah well, if they come from Jean that´s a pretty damn good basis
I´d still ask him for the sake of confirming their origin and having that information in your power.

17 and 18 and still subadults? O_O Bloody hell....
Keep us posted on these beauties, i want to see if these monsters reach 20cm xD

 

[Jay Redbond]

Jean said when he gave them to me that they are the biggest crested newts he has kept.

I will indeed keep you all informed.

 

[Jay Redbond]

Here are some more pictures:happy:

 

[Davo]

Great looking newts and great looking set up, i hope you get plenty of eggs!

 

[Jay Redbond]

Cheers Martin,the male is displaying all the time at the moment and the females are ready to burst. So they should lay in the next week or two hopefully.

 

[uwe]

Hi Jay,

so did you get the information where they from?

Uwe

 

[Jay Redbond]

No but I will send Jean an email and let you know.:happy:

 

[uwe]

perfect, normally I see Jean one a year.

Uwe

 

[Jay Redbond]

perfect, normally I see Jean one a year.

Uwe

Ok well I have to email him anyway as I am going to see him in June, so will email him tomorrow and let you know the locality once he gets back to me.

Cheers

 

[Jay Redbond]

Hi Jay,

so did you get the information where they from?

Uwe

Hi Uwe,

Found out that they are from Smolikas in central Greece.

Cheers

 

[uwe]

Thank you for the information. Hope for off-spring!

As info: Smolikas is in the north (NW) of Greece, close to the albanian border and the Terra typica of Tr.mac. the Ohrid-Lake.

See you

Uwe

 

[pezzatos]

Wow... Those males seems to be karelinii or arntzenii in the first photos and they seems cristatus in the last photos when they have crests!
So macedonicus is now newly considered as a subspecies of carnifex?
And what about arntzenii? It is still considered a specie or it returned to be Triturus karelinii arntzenii...?
Thank you

 

[uwe]

On my (latest) opinion macedonicus is a species (Tr.mac) and there are two subspecies under Tr.karelenii (karelenii (T.k.k.) and arntzenii (T.k.a.)).

This may be still in discussion.

Uwe

 

[Jay Redbond]

Wow... Those males seems to be karelinii or arntzenii in the first photos and they seems cristatus in the last photos when they have crests!
So macedonicus is now newly considered as a subspecies of carnifex?
And what about arntzenii? It is still considered a specie or it returned to be Triturus karelinii arntzenii...?
Thank you

I believe it once was considered as a subspecies of carnifex. However I believe that there is substantial genetic evidence that it could be a species, but I think this is still being questioned. Can anyone else shed some light on this please, are they still considered as a subspecies of carnifex?

Thanks

 

[uwe]

Hi Jay,

see my posting above. There is lit from Arntzen who considers Tr.mac. as species.

Uwe

 

[Azhael]

Both macedonicus and arntzeni have been proposed as full species. Last thing i read, the genetic data validated the proposition. However, when it comes to the "cristatus complex" the concept of species is somewhat strange because while genetically distinctive, they can all interbreed producing fertile offspring and this happens all over the contact zones.

 

[pezzatos]

The things you say, Azhael, are the same that i knew too.... I asked because I did read Jay Redbond call them Triturus carnifex macedonicus, so I thinked that maybe there were some news...