Trying to identify Larvae, Tried to narrow it down (long)

S

steve

Guest
OKAY: Found larvae in a large marsh pond with cattails and dead trees. ( i also found a snapping turtle and alot of eastern spotted newts Notophthalmus v. viridescens) The area where this is, has been told to me by someone that the surrounding woods/woodlands contain: spotteds ambystoma, redbacks plethodon, slimys plethodon, efts Notophthalmus, duskies desmognathus(in creeks).

*The larvae are from 1" - 1 1/2" long.*

Here's the list of what (may be "to my knowledge") in my range where the pond is along with insight on some research/questions on each to try and tell what these are:

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">
Common Mudpuppy Necturus maculosus (are these larvae bigger then 1 1/2"? range map is scarce distribution)

Jefferson Salamander Ambystoma jeffersonianum(they like swamps/ponds and have larvae)

Blue-spotted Salamander Ambystoma laterale (same)

Spotted Salamander Ambystoma maculatum (larvae are 1/2"-2 1/2" and MAY BE IN THAT WOODLAND AREA SUPPOSEDLY)

Red-spotted Newt Notophthalmus v. viridescens (this is what i found in adult form in same pond BUT, was told larvae dont go over 1")

Northern Dusky Salamander Desmognathus fuscus (larvae transform at 1 1/2" BUT like brooks? and MAY BE IN THAT WOODLAND AREA SUPPOSEDLY)

Allegheny Dusky Salamander Desmognathus ochrophaeus (larvae transform at 1" and like brooks?)

Wehrle's Salamander Plethodon wehrlei (does this "like slimys" have babies on land or larvae in water?)

Four-toed Salamander Hemidactylium scutatum (has only 4 toes on back feet MY LARVAE ONLY HAVE 4 toes "that i can count" BUT larvae transform at 7/8" and they like mountain environment)

Northern Spring Salamander Gyrinophilus p. porphyriticus (would i see any RED color? hang out under rocks in water more like creeks not ponds?)

Northern Two-lined Salamander Eurycea bislineata (like brooks not ponds and are VERY TINY?)
</FONT>

OKAY, now thats my questions and research on each sallie that it might be in my range. You can see why im frustrated.

*sorry not to have photo, scanner died and larvae "i feel" are too delicate to keep moving*

let me know which one you feel it is,

Steve


*note: only other sallies in NY state but not in my range map are: hellbender, marbled, eastern tiger, redback(no larvae), slimys (no larvae), northern red, longtail.
 
N

nate

Guest
From your description of the area, they are going to be Notophthalmus or A. maculatum. Probably Notophthalmus since you've seen so many adults there.
 
S

steve

Guest
NATE, your the answer man today.


* how about what I heard about Notophthalmus larvae not going over 1")

-larvae has tiny blk specs on sides.
 
N

nate

Guest
No, that's not true, they can get 35-40mm in length before metamorphoses...that's around 1- 1/2 inches


The tiny black specks are consistent with Notophthalmus larvae, and not Ambystoma.
 
S

steve

Guest
does the Wehrle's Salamander or all Plethodon species "for that fact" NOT have larvae stage?
 
Z

zach

Guest
I can tell you most Plethodon species just skip the larvae stage, such as the red-backed salamander. But I believe when reading I came over a few that still do lay larvae, but maybe I am thinking of a different salamander family.

zach
 
N

nate

Guest
Wehrle's Sal and all other members of the genus Plethodon do not have larvae. The only Plethodontids with larvae are Eurycea, Gyrinophilus, Hemidactylium, Pseudotriton, Stereochilus, and Typhlotriton.
 
S

steve

Guest
OKAY, I ended up with two spotteds (Ambystoma maculatum) and 6 Eastern newts (Notophthalmus v. viridescens). (ohh, and 1 frog still in tadpole form)

*ALSO:

1) does the Ambystoma maculatum, after being transferred to a terrestial setup, EAT right away?

2) Is there a reason that my 6 Notophthalmus guys/gals are NOT RED? (its been 2-3 weeks since the first one morphed)


(NATE, where are you?)

Steve
 
N

nate

Guest
Hi Steve, glad to hear everything worked out for you, hehe. Turns out I was pretty close eh?


1) The great majority of Ambystoma larvae that I've raised did not eat for about 3-14 days after morphing. You do get variations on this though, sometimes one or two will eat all the way through metamorphosis or wait almost a month before eating again. But usually, they'll start eating again in 3-14 days.

2) It can take a while for the color to develop in the efts, even up to a couple months. Also, not all efts are red or orange, some remain green or greenish brown.

Good luck with the morphs.
 
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