C
chris
Guest
Just thought British members might like to know that Tylototrition kweichewensis have appeared recently on Eurorep's trade list, at £65.00 + VAT each.
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T
travis
Guest
Are these captive bred or wild caught? I am assuming they are wildcaught but was wondering how a shipment from Japan could legally be sent.Aren't there restrictions?
Either way I can't purchase any(I am located in the US)......lucky British members.
-Travis
Either way I can't purchase any(I am located in the US)......lucky British members.
-Travis
C
chris
Guest
Wild caught, Travis. Eurorep are a reputable firm so I assume the animals are legal.
N
nate
Guest
Hi Travis, Japan has nothing to do with it. T. kweichowensis is imported from China.
M
matt
Guest
Greetings Chris!
Many, many thanks for the hot tip - keep 'em coming.
Eurorep do seem to have an interesting stocklist.
I'll have to go and do some serious thinking about your news
If you are tempted, let us know how it all goes and what kind of shape they are in when they get to you?
Best//M
Many, many thanks for the hot tip - keep 'em coming.
Eurorep do seem to have an interesting stocklist.
I'll have to go and do some serious thinking about your news
If you are tempted, let us know how it all goes and what kind of shape they are in when they get to you?
Best//M
T
travis
Guest
Sorry, my mistake. For some reason I thought T.kweichowensis was a Japanese species.
So T.kweichowensis obviously is not protected in China I take it?
-Travis
So T.kweichowensis obviously is not protected in China I take it?
-Travis
mike
Active member
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Hi Matt,I bought 1.1 T.kweichowensis from Eurorep on 3rd July. They are stunning adults, and are feeding well on black crickets & lobworms. (so far so good!)Unfortunately Eurorep only supply to the trade, so anyone interested in buying animals from them would have to order through their local petshop/supplier.
-Mike
-Mike
J
john
Guest
Yes, these animals were imported perfectly legally. They are wild caught adults.
T
travis
Guest
Why have we not not seen any importations of T.kweichowensis similar to the large shipments of T.verrucosus in ths US?
I believe it has been a few years since T.verrucosus has been imported in any large numbers and I can never remember any T.kweichowensis shipments arriving in the US.Why is this?
I believe it has been a few years since T.verrucosus has been imported in any large numbers and I can never remember any T.kweichowensis shipments arriving in the US.Why is this?
J
john
Guest
Most likely because the complex known as "Tylototriton verrucosus" has such a huge range when compared to any of the other species in this group that there are so many more collecting possibilities and exporting countries. In my experience, no two batches of T. verrucosus have been the same "strain".
T. kweichowensis has a relatively small range and though they have been available in the US and Europe a few times, I sincerely doubt that they'll show up again in numbers.
Personally, I believe this is a very good thing. I happen to know that this particular importation into the UK of T. kweichowensis was a special arrangement and not carried out through normal channels, hence the excellent condition of the animals. I also happen to know that nearly every person who has received or will receive some is a dedicated enthusiast and will quite likely attempt to breed them.
I sincerely hope that the days of the mass export of newts from Asia are numbered. I know this is the only source of animals for some people but I feel quite strongly that importing huge numbers every year to have only 0.0x % of them survive is a terrible thing and should be brought to an end.
I have no problems saying that I believe people shouldn't be in this hobby if they don't have the clear intention of breeding the animals they are keeping. Otherwise they should get some of those replica salamanders that were discussed a while ago.
T. kweichowensis has a relatively small range and though they have been available in the US and Europe a few times, I sincerely doubt that they'll show up again in numbers.
Personally, I believe this is a very good thing. I happen to know that this particular importation into the UK of T. kweichowensis was a special arrangement and not carried out through normal channels, hence the excellent condition of the animals. I also happen to know that nearly every person who has received or will receive some is a dedicated enthusiast and will quite likely attempt to breed them.
I sincerely hope that the days of the mass export of newts from Asia are numbered. I know this is the only source of animals for some people but I feel quite strongly that importing huge numbers every year to have only 0.0x % of them survive is a terrible thing and should be brought to an end.
I have no problems saying that I believe people shouldn't be in this hobby if they don't have the clear intention of breeding the animals they are keeping. Otherwise they should get some of those replica salamanders that were discussed a while ago.
C
chris
Guest
How do you keep them? What size tank for a pair?
Chris
Chris
T
travis
Guest
I now understand John. Thanks for clearing that up with me. I had never taken into account the size of the T.verrucosus complex's range...duh!
I do hope also that large exports from Asia become a thing of the past, and now just for the Ukraine's latest shipments...argg!
It is good to hear that all of those T.kweichowensis are going into good hands though.
I am also going to have to agree with you about not keeping animals if you don't have the intention of breeding them...especially with such rare animals as Tylototriton.
Good to hear your honest views on this all.
Thanks,
Travis
I do hope also that large exports from Asia become a thing of the past, and now just for the Ukraine's latest shipments...argg!
It is good to hear that all of those T.kweichowensis are going into good hands though.
I am also going to have to agree with you about not keeping animals if you don't have the intention of breeding them...especially with such rare animals as Tylototriton.
Good to hear your honest views on this all.
Thanks,
Travis
M
matt
Guest
I would like to say to all the people have kweichowensis already... or who have them now, thanks to this shipment... or who may be about to get them... wouldn't it be fantastic if at some point in the future this site could be hosting photos of larvae and / or advertisements for good homes being sought?
Re the difference in verrucosus strains. I keep two different strains - one from JC, one from a former petshop owner - and the differences between the two are fascinating... small but somehow dramatic - I do understand what John means here.
Best//M
Re the difference in verrucosus strains. I keep two different strains - one from JC, one from a former petshop owner - and the differences between the two are fascinating... small but somehow dramatic - I do understand what John means here.
Best//M
J
john
Guest
Re: the T. kweichowensis, well I arranged to get six of these adults prior to their importation and I fully intend to breed them in the next year or die trying. My ability to cater well for them should improve dramatically from September so fingers crossed.
Re: the strains of T. verrucosus, I'm glad someone else close to home is finally singing my song
. I know of people interbreeding these strains because they don't feel they're different, and that upsets me a little because I don't like the concept. On the other hand, it's somewhat frustrating to have only one closely-related group of animals with no immediate possibility to find new blood of the same strain
.
I'll be back in the UK this Sunday (July 13th).
Re: the strains of T. verrucosus, I'm glad someone else close to home is finally singing my song
I'll be back in the UK this Sunday (July 13th).
J
john
Guest
To Chris regarding keeping T. kweichowensis:
This has been covered before as far as I can remember. This species is possibly the largest (or joint largest) of the genus, sometimes reaching 25 cm (10 inches) in length. Unlike most specimens of T. shanjing, adults and large juveniles are not usually afraid to completely enter the water, so I would suggest a 50% land 50% water tank at least 3 feet long x 1 foot wide for a pair. Add a foot in length for every additional pair and I think it would be about right. If you're keeping them in a smaller set up than this, ease back on the water and give them more land. However, since they're big newts I wouldn't recommend a tank smaller than 3 feet for a pair of adults.
Temperature tolerance is quite good but I wouldn't recommend going over 25 or 26 degrees Celsius for too long in the summer. In my experience they are not as tolerant of very high temperatures as T. verrucosus (which I kept at 33 degrees Celsius / 91 F for quite a few days in 2001 with no ill effects). Their temperature tolerance seems to be about the same as T. shanjing. That's speaking from experience with all three species. I've kept T. kweichowensis since 2001.
This has been covered before as far as I can remember. This species is possibly the largest (or joint largest) of the genus, sometimes reaching 25 cm (10 inches) in length. Unlike most specimens of T. shanjing, adults and large juveniles are not usually afraid to completely enter the water, so I would suggest a 50% land 50% water tank at least 3 feet long x 1 foot wide for a pair. Add a foot in length for every additional pair and I think it would be about right. If you're keeping them in a smaller set up than this, ease back on the water and give them more land. However, since they're big newts I wouldn't recommend a tank smaller than 3 feet for a pair of adults.
Temperature tolerance is quite good but I wouldn't recommend going over 25 or 26 degrees Celsius for too long in the summer. In my experience they are not as tolerant of very high temperatures as T. verrucosus (which I kept at 33 degrees Celsius / 91 F for quite a few days in 2001 with no ill effects). Their temperature tolerance seems to be about the same as T. shanjing. That's speaking from experience with all three species. I've kept T. kweichowensis since 2001.
J
john
Guest
Just to add, I got back from the US and received my six adults. I have them on hortag in a temporary viv - I'm moving in 6 weeks and they'll get a 4 foot vivarium. They seem to prefer the hortag only slightly damp. They seem to go crazy for earthworms. Some are accepting food from forceps already. Photos to follow in the next few days.
If you're in the UK and you want something extremely unusual that's not hard to take care of (and you can afford £65 a pop), get some of these. I know for a fact that these won't be showing up again soon here in the UK and may not again for years to come, if ever again. To the best of my knowledge, there are less than 10 left out of the 30 that came in and I suspect they will be gone within the next week. For wild caught Tylototriton they are in good shape, so losses should be quite minimal. As a final note, if you're not sure about whether to acquire any or not, I would urge you to get at least 4 or none at all in order to have any chance of breeding them. Get them while you can.
(Message edited by john on July 20, 2003)
If you're in the UK and you want something extremely unusual that's not hard to take care of (and you can afford £65 a pop), get some of these. I know for a fact that these won't be showing up again soon here in the UK and may not again for years to come, if ever again. To the best of my knowledge, there are less than 10 left out of the 30 that came in and I suspect they will be gone within the next week. For wild caught Tylototriton they are in good shape, so losses should be quite minimal. As a final note, if you're not sure about whether to acquire any or not, I would urge you to get at least 4 or none at all in order to have any chance of breeding them. Get them while you can.
(Message edited by john on July 20, 2003)
M
matt
Guest
Every now and again I pop in here and find a thread that is very apt in regard to what is happening in my caudate room or what is on my mind.
Some miscellaneous thoughts...
1) Am I the only the person who feels Hortag is over-rated? I believe it is hard to get hold of, produces a dirty liquid, enables crickets to hide (and then quickly rot) and fragile feet, eg Neurergus strauchii, seem to stumble and bumble on it.
2) At the time of writing I am trying to get my hands on the above mentioned Tylototriton. I know this is a rare opportunity, but - my buying decision having been made - all that has happened so far is that I have had confirmed to me just what a frustrating, labyrinthine thing the pet trade is.
The current state of play is I am paying Petshop A tomorrow to pay Herp supplier B to pick them up from Importer-Wholesaler C and deliver them to A. I have had a devil of a job finding someone to help me. It reminded me of a famous US psychologist I once heard talk about car salesmen who dissuade - fight?! - customers who have decided to buy, know what they want and just want to pay. After days of ignored emails and ringing round I still fear I have "missed the boat" (I was very recently reassured there are lots left, but apparently it is less than 10?!).
3)Somebody said this importation was a special arrangement not carried through normal channels. What does this mean? Just curious...
4) They aren't £65 a pop though are they - that is the trade price. So a retailer is supposed to buy them for that plus Value Addded Tax (VAT on an amphibian - I ask you!!!), then add the industry mark-up. Which is usually - although it seems I have found a merciful retailer - a mark-up of 100% as far as I can tell. In the words of a well-know UK bank advert, there must be "another way".
5) After recently reading about a different species which was imported and spotted at a garden centre the worse for wear, let us hope that not only am I in time but also that the other hands which must be involved in this pass-the-parcel know what they are doing.
6) Thanks for the get-at-least-four advice. I contemplated obtaining 2 and needed a thin excuse to double-up. Advice accepted eagrely, John.
Off to pray to the Patron St of Lost Causes,
Matthew
Some miscellaneous thoughts...
1) Am I the only the person who feels Hortag is over-rated? I believe it is hard to get hold of, produces a dirty liquid, enables crickets to hide (and then quickly rot) and fragile feet, eg Neurergus strauchii, seem to stumble and bumble on it.
2) At the time of writing I am trying to get my hands on the above mentioned Tylototriton. I know this is a rare opportunity, but - my buying decision having been made - all that has happened so far is that I have had confirmed to me just what a frustrating, labyrinthine thing the pet trade is.
The current state of play is I am paying Petshop A tomorrow to pay Herp supplier B to pick them up from Importer-Wholesaler C and deliver them to A. I have had a devil of a job finding someone to help me. It reminded me of a famous US psychologist I once heard talk about car salesmen who dissuade - fight?! - customers who have decided to buy, know what they want and just want to pay. After days of ignored emails and ringing round I still fear I have "missed the boat" (I was very recently reassured there are lots left, but apparently it is less than 10?!).
3)Somebody said this importation was a special arrangement not carried through normal channels. What does this mean? Just curious...
4) They aren't £65 a pop though are they - that is the trade price. So a retailer is supposed to buy them for that plus Value Addded Tax (VAT on an amphibian - I ask you!!!), then add the industry mark-up. Which is usually - although it seems I have found a merciful retailer - a mark-up of 100% as far as I can tell. In the words of a well-know UK bank advert, there must be "another way".
5) After recently reading about a different species which was imported and spotted at a garden centre the worse for wear, let us hope that not only am I in time but also that the other hands which must be involved in this pass-the-parcel know what they are doing.
6) Thanks for the get-at-least-four advice. I contemplated obtaining 2 and needed a thin excuse to double-up. Advice accepted eagrely, John.
Off to pray to the Patron St of Lost Causes,
Matthew
J
john
Guest
1) It's nice for low maintenance regulation of moisture. It's not suited to small animals in my opinion, nor does it help when you're trying to feed animals. I'm not a great fan of it, but it's the next step up from paper towels (which lose their moisture too fast and are hard to regulate).
2) That seems somewhat convoluted, given that retailers can usually buy directly from Eurorep/BHS. Have you tried talking to Eurorep directly, or asking them for suggested retailers?
3) I said that. It means they weren't bought from a normal far eastern wholesaler.
4) Yeah, the price is a bit steep, but to be honest I know that Eurorep are making lower than normal profit on these and that's actually deliberate on their part in this case.
5) Hence why I advise you to ask Eurorep for advice on acquiring them. These particular animals are probably feeling delicate by now because they've been through a few sets of hands and travelling for a while now.
6) I hope you're friends with your bank manager.
(Message edited by john on July 20, 2003)
2) That seems somewhat convoluted, given that retailers can usually buy directly from Eurorep/BHS. Have you tried talking to Eurorep directly, or asking them for suggested retailers?
3) I said that. It means they weren't bought from a normal far eastern wholesaler.
4) Yeah, the price is a bit steep, but to be honest I know that Eurorep are making lower than normal profit on these and that's actually deliberate on their part in this case.
5) Hence why I advise you to ask Eurorep for advice on acquiring them. These particular animals are probably feeling delicate by now because they've been through a few sets of hands and travelling for a while now.
6) I hope you're friends with your bank manager.
(Message edited by john on July 20, 2003)
morg
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Matt
As John suggests, contact Eurorep direct.
They will most probably not let you buy from them, but when I contacted them with an enquiry a while back, they advised me of the petshops that the animals I was asking about had already been sent too, but also gave me a list of shops in my area who deal directly with them.
As John suggests, contact Eurorep direct.
They will most probably not let you buy from them, but when I contacted them with an enquiry a while back, they advised me of the petshops that the animals I was asking about had already been sent too, but also gave me a list of shops in my area who deal directly with them.
M
matt
Guest
Dear John, Dear Morg,
I *did* approach Eurorep directly for help and advice. Not by post - no time to spare - not by phone - I could not find the number in the trade directories I have... I emailed. They would not deign to speak to me.
This goes to the general point I am doing a poor job of making.
~Wholesalers could be more informative to the public even if they won't sell to them directly.
~Petshops could be more helpful, even if they don't deal with the relevant wholesaler.
I do feel like I have had to negotiate an obstacle course. It is hard for the little guy without industry contacts - we are only having this thread thanks to Chris' tip-off. When Eurorep still have them, suppliers-to-the-public are telling me they must have sold out and I'm wasting my time because they do not appear on current lists. If that helps me because it put off others maybe I should not complain, but I cannot see how misinformation helps Eurorep / the seller / the public.
Thanks for the advice by private email John. Out of respect for the people who *have* been helpful I'd better stick to the arrangements I have made. It is convaluted, but only a little more than the average man-in-the-street faces in trying to work out this rather secretive, slightly bizarre, very secretive and occasionally seemingly incestuous industry.
Aware of how I'm going both off-topic and off-on-one I'll say cheers again for input and sign off.
Best//M
I *did* approach Eurorep directly for help and advice. Not by post - no time to spare - not by phone - I could not find the number in the trade directories I have... I emailed. They would not deign to speak to me.
This goes to the general point I am doing a poor job of making.
~Wholesalers could be more informative to the public even if they won't sell to them directly.
~Petshops could be more helpful, even if they don't deal with the relevant wholesaler.
I do feel like I have had to negotiate an obstacle course. It is hard for the little guy without industry contacts - we are only having this thread thanks to Chris' tip-off. When Eurorep still have them, suppliers-to-the-public are telling me they must have sold out and I'm wasting my time because they do not appear on current lists. If that helps me because it put off others maybe I should not complain, but I cannot see how misinformation helps Eurorep / the seller / the public.
Thanks for the advice by private email John. Out of respect for the people who *have* been helpful I'd better stick to the arrangements I have made. It is convaluted, but only a little more than the average man-in-the-street faces in trying to work out this rather secretive, slightly bizarre, very secretive and occasionally seemingly incestuous industry.
Aware of how I'm going both off-topic and off-on-one I'll say cheers again for input and sign off.
Best//M