Tylototriton taliangensis, comparisons in morphology.

[terry]

Hello folks,

Tim: thanks for the notification!
Wouter: Do you still posses a living example of Tylototriton taliangensis? If so could you please find the time to post a picture of it? If you do not posses the said species, please disregard my request! Thanks in advance.

Tim: Is your Tylototriton taliangensis reproducing? I am trying to find out how this species fairs in two different climate conditions in a captive environment. Has anyone bred this species?

Are there any significant morphological differences/similarities in this species ( other than the similar colouration to T wenxianensis)?

(Message edited by terryschild on October 26, 2005)

 

[wouter]

Hi Terry,yes I've still got two males, but getting females in Europe seems to be almost impossible. They are being bred, but only in very, very limited numbers. A good (and only) breeding article is FLECK J. (1997) “Nachzucht von Tylototriton taliangensis” Elaphe 5(2): pp. 86.

Unique in this species is the flat head (usually a characteristic of Echinotriton) and the really big hindfeet. The tail is very long compared to other Tylototriton... thats about it.

Here is one of my males:

(Message edited by wouter on October 26, 2005)

 

[terry]

Ahhh pity!

I was hoping there would be a female too as I wanted to document them! Are you the only one keeping this species in NL? Surely someone else is trying to breed this species as part of the Tylototriton project?

Thank you very much for the photograph. I wish to ask you some questions if you do not mind:
Is this a recent photo? How old is the animal and where did it originate from? What sort of living conditions do you offer it (i.e. terrarium setup/ size and temperature). Many thanks Wouter!
Greetings,
Terry

 

[wouter]

Terry, I'll PM you about the situation in The Netherlands and my own experiences.

 

[terry]

Hello wouter,
Thanks for your reaction, I've replied in PM. Hope we could discuss there further if need be.

Greetings,
Terry

 

[TJ]

Terry, my T. taliangensis has no mate, and though I am very fond of this species, I'm temporarily giving mine away, tomorrow actually, to a friend who has bred them before (as I've posted in a previous thread here, I think.) I'm also parting ways with my other Tylototriton (verrucosus and kweichowensis) as I am simply too busy now to adequately care for them. But I'll be retaining my E. andersoni and the rest (Cynops, hynobiids, marbleds, etc.). I'll still be able to visit my Tylototriton from time to time though

 

[terry]

(cries) No!!!

There goes my other source of T. taliangensis in captivity! (sob!). Hope he is happy in his new home and may he "live long and prosper!"

Now I know my thread states that this is a T taliangensis forum so instead of hopping back and forth on people's thread I'll post my question here:
Was there ever a recorded case of Echinotriton andersoni exported into Europe other than the ones we already know? Who controls the import and export of these animals since both Echinotriton species are not on the CITES list. A puzzling question actually.

As for T taliangensis I was told that these species live in montane areas. Are these montane areas similar to the cloud forests of Malaysia with similar annual percipitation/ humidity levels? I have tried looking on the internet and through the threads posted in the past but other than pictures no real references. Perhaps I'll need to look up some articles or papers in regards to this species in scientific journals.

My goal is to collect data of T. taliangensis kept in captivity by people like yourself and Wouter (whom have responded to me in kind, thanks Wouter my lad!). Surely there are more people out there whom have succesfully kept and/or bred this species who are not part of a scientific body but mere layman hobbyists/ enthousiasts?

Tim, I'll be approaching you sometime next year in heavy Hynobius discussion once I get my act together

for you are my only "on site" eye witness/spotter!

Warm regards from Cold Holland,
Terry
p.s. actually the weather has been screwy and during my field trips I've noticed some disturbing things with the native newt colonies. they are beginning to breed once more.

 

[TJ]

Hi Terry, suffice it to say for now that it is illegal under Japanese law for anybody to export E. andersoni outside Japan without special permission, or to sell or collect this animal from the wild in Japan (this topic has been covered in previous threads so I won't go into detail).

There are lots of such cases of animals protected by national law, in need of international protection, but not covered by CITES. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the ONLY caudates covered by CITES are both species of the Genus Andrias.

Sorry but I myself have no special knowledge or advice to impart on the care of T. taliangensis

.

 

[terry]

Thank you very much for the information, Tim. I still have some questions but then again they will have to wait for now, puzzling though they may be.

Someone else in the rest of Europe ought to have T tangliangensis other than the few people in NL. I guess it is back to digging up old posts in older threads for this one.

Once again thanks for the info Tim. Have a good evening. It is time for me to hit the books and burn the literal "midnight oil".
Terry
p.s. ( I probably need reading glasses soon.)

 

[william]

Tery, i have had the pleasure of seeing Echinotriton andersoni here in the UK

 

[terry]

Are you sure it was Echinotriton?
Or Tylototriton taliangensis? Hehehe I would assume the animals were labled. Did you know who was the breeder?
Its fine and grand that Echinotriton is sighted in the UK, but what about T. taliangensis?
Greetings,
Terry

 

[william]

yes they were echinotriton they were adults raised from wild eggs, collected "just before the ban was placed". but i don't wish to say anything else on that...

there was an import of chinese amphibians that contained shanjing, verrucosus, wexianensis, kweichowensis and taliangensis last month.

 

[mike]

Hi Will,

This shipment was supposed to contain those species you mention, but the Importer, by the time he eventually had ordered them, could only obtain kweichowensis.
This was the second shipment to the UK within the last two years, and the animals fared a lot better than the first, (by a different Importer).
I personally know of 15 kweichows from this shipment, and they are all feeding, and doing very well. (Early days I know).

 

[michael]

It seems their are few female T. taliangensis in the U.S. too. I'm down to 4 males and have little hope to find females. I think I'm going to evict them.

 

[pollywog]

There have been a number of imports into the UK over the last 2 years on top of those Mike mentioned.

Last year one of the major reptile importers bought in some kweichowensis which did not do very well and also one had some shanjing misidentified as verrucosus.

This year I have seen several shipments of verrucosus come in via the aquatics trade including 1 shipment about 2 weeks ago. I have also had reports from a very reliable source that a shipment of kweichowensis came in to the country via an aquatics wholesaler late last year / early this year.

In the last couple of months one reptile importer had a mixture of shanjing and verrucosus, and a few weeks later another importer bought in kweichowensis.

At the same time as this last import of kweichowensis I bought in a number of other Tylototriton species (including taliangensis) via a contact in Europe, none of these went into the pet trade but straight to certain establishments to set up potential breeding groups.

 

[terry]

Hello Andrew:
It is comforting to know that most of the T. taliangensis ended up in the "care"of private establishments. At least the people involved would attempt to provide ( hopefully) the best environment for them to survive rather than to end up as a christmas birthday gift which is soon forgotten. Or worse yet: somebody bought it because it was "cool"?

I wonder if taliangensis will ever go beyond F1 and or F2? ( in regards to breeding generations).

Slightly of topic here though touching on Tylototritons:
With the amount of Tylototriton kweichowensis being shipped and imported. Could anyone suspect that they are getting a little more popular due to their colouration? ( Again feeding the "market for the peculiar or the rich in colour") I suspect there will be slight "pokémon syndrome"running around.

 

[pollywog]

IMO kweichowensis are not becoming more popular, just that they are more readily available to importers. Also the price that they are going for at present deters those people wanting them just because they look nice.

 

[foster]

Michael,
I saw your ad and was planning on contacting you since I have been looking to replace one of my female taliangensis. I guess that will not be necessary at this point. I have yet to have any of the Tylototriton species that I have produce any eggs however I continue to keep my fingers crossed.
Chip