Tylototriton wenxianensis CB doubts

[eljorgo]

I recently aquired a group of 5 juvenile CB´s from this species but due to the noob level of my middle man they came in poor conditions. Besides being tiny morphs they took 8days to come and swimming on highly moistened sphagnum moss. I could only count 4 when they arrived. Soon all started developing skin shores and wounds. 3 Are gone. I am only with the biggest from the group. He seems okay despite some tiny wounds on tail. I wonder if he lives... He is on fridge for 10 days to avoid the development of skin problems. Still, he seems more skinny and in need to feed witch is, at his own, a great problem.. I think i will stop the fridge system as he doesn't feed for weeks and i guess its time to offer something besides drosophila larvae I offered one week ago.

Like he is a 5cm juvie and terrestrial tylo juvenils are always tricky to feed, could I get him on water like verrucosus or this is a water-phobia species like T.shanjing juvenils?
Thanks for the help,

Jorge Góis

 

[FrogEyes]

I have not worked with Yaotriton yet, but my expectation for the entire subgenus is that they would do best in a fairly dry environment. Don't compare to T.shanjing OR T.verrucosus - T.wenxianensis is not a close relative of either of these. T.asperrimus would be a better comparison [along with hainanensis, vietnamensis, and notialis].

 

[eljorgo]

Well I already know all of that... Not very sugestive, I dare to say its the basic knowledge within crocodile newts. My really objective was to know if they could be induced to became aquatic or not.

thx anyway

 

[FrogEyes]

I think you missed my point then. You were making comparisons with two species which belong to subgenus Tylototriton. The latter, as far as is known, all reproduce in the water, with most of the named species otherwise living on land.

The species you are asking about belongs to subgenus Yaotriton. As far as is known, all of the latter are even MORE terrestrial. Although they court in shallow water, the eggs are laid on land, though the males may remain in the water for longer periods.

It just seems a bit like an apples and oranges comparison to me, and I would expect better results by comparing apples to apples.

 

[eljorgo]

It just seems a bit like an apples and oranges comparison to me, and I would expect better results by comparing apples to apples.

I still dont get it. xD Were you saw me telling that X was the same as Y? As for fruits, all of them are apples since they are all tylototritons (yet) and were that the past decades before this hole new taxonomy changes.
Establishing a term of comparision isnt telling Z is the same as N. Its pointing out all similarities and all its diferences. Only a outsider could mix this concept out.
Like verrucosus can enter in water easily, wenxianensis could do it. No matter all the other differences they have.
Establishing this sort of comparison doesn't seems that sinister like you are pointing it out. What you tell me is pointless to my objectives but you still spent your precious time on my thread and I appreciate the help no matter the results.
Anyway, lets hope this guy makes it to adulthood.
cheers,

Jorge

 

[froggy]

I think FrogEyes means that the verrucosus group of Tylototriton share the characteristic of living near to or in water as adults and lay their eggs in the water, which makes them more suitable for a wet or aquatic enclosure. The wenxianensis group shares the characteristic of living in drier environments as adults and laying eggs on land, which means that they will probably do better if maintained in a drier environment.

The differentiation of Tylototriton into two sub-groups is based on morphological/genetic traits (i.e. an evolutionary/phylogenetic split), but probably reflects ecological niche divergence (the factors that contributed to the common ancestor of the two groups diverging into two distinct groups rather than speciating within one more homogenous group). This divergence probably includes the types of microhabitat adults/juveniles prefer to live in and so has an impact on how they need to be housed in captivity. So the (perhaps apparently meaningless) taxonomic changes reflect evolutionary divergences caused and maintained, in part, by ecological factors.

Thus, it is better to look at how asperrimus, hainanensis, vietnamensis and notialis live in the wild and are maintained in cpativity (if data on wenxianensis isn't available) as these are more closely related to wenxianensis, rather than looking at the more distantly related verrucosus/shanjing/kweichowensis group. This is the same as if you wanted to know how to maintain Paramesotriton chinensis, you would do well to look at P. fuzhongensis/chinensis etc instead of looking at Pachytriton or Cynops.

Good luck with the survivor. The treatment of the middle-m,an is really very angering. Do you know where wenxianensis was bred or any details of how it was achieved?

Chris

 

[wouter]

I've kept wenxianensis for some time, and they are the most terrestrial Tylototriton as far as I know, concerning behaviour much more similar to Echinotriton. Eljorgo, the morphs won't benefit from a humid setup, and will not even survive an aquatic setup. There actually is an article about reproduction of wenxianensis (google it!) which shows that the females only enter the water for a few days during the year, while males never enter the water.
Good luck with the survivor!

 

[froggy]

The article is here:
http://www.asiatic-herpetological.org/Archive/Volume 11/11_06.pdf

I don't know if others can access it as I am looking at it at work.

Chris

 

[Lizamphid]

I recently aquired a group of 5 juvenile CB´s from this species but due to the noob level of my middle man they came in poor conditions. Besides being tiny morphs they took 8days to come and swimming on highly moistened sphagnum moss. I could only count 4 when they arrived. Soon all started developing skin shores and wounds. 3 Are gone. I am only with the biggest from the group. He seems okay despite some tiny wounds on tail. I wonder if he lives... He is on fridge for 10 days to avoid the development of skin problems. Still, he seems more skinny and in need to feed witch is, at his own, a great problem.. I think i will stop the fridge system as he doesn't feed for weeks and i guess its time to offer something besides drosophila larvae I offered one week ago.

Like he is a 5cm juvie and terrestrial tylo juvenils are always tricky to feed, could I get him on water like verrucosus or this is a water-phobia species like T.shanjing juvenils?
Thanks for the help,

Jorge Góis

I´m not experienced in juvenile wenxian, i can only comment on my adults and their substrate is dry at all times. This has probably not helped much in your case, but good luck with them. Oh, one of mine got stressed out in the summer and had a sore which cured by dropping the temp to under 4ºC and keeping him in the dark for a few days. He has since had a skin shed and looks in top condition.

 

[eljorgo]

The treatment of the middle-m,an is really very angering.

Yeah, you bet.

Do you know where wenxianensis was bred or any details of how it was achieved?

No Ideia actually.

Eljorgo, the morphs won't benefit from a humid setup,

I never said they would. I was trying to put them in totaly aquatic one. Not in a supermoistered terrestrial setup.

while males never enter the water.

I´ve seen Rob Keulers adult males in water. Thats why i started this thread.

Good luck with the survivor!

Thank you wouter

I´m not experienced in juvenile wenxian, i can only comment on my adults and their substrate is dry at all times. This has probably not helped much in your case, but good luck with them. Oh, one of mine got stressed out in the summer and had a sore which cured by dropping the temp to under 4ºC and keeping him in the dark for a few days. He has since had a skin shed and looks in top condition.

thats exaclty how i kept mine. Dry as most i could. Totaly dried moss, dry papertowels and dry soil. and then placed in fridge (dark) at 2-4ºC During weeks. Even that way lost the 3 weaker ones and this fella is still here but still with skin problems in tail And never ate. None of them.
Well, I shall see...

thx,