Upside-down

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leeloo

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My axi is just over a year old but for the last 4mths shes been floating upside-down. In the time shes been like that i've tried all sorts to make her be the right way up! I lowered the water level (as i read this should help) but she just seemed distressed and she didn't seem to be able to turn over, so i made the water nice and deep and sometimes she seemed like she was trying to turn over but couldn't! She swims around fine and eats as normal and doesn't really seemed phased that shes the wrong way up, so i'm at a loss of what to do! I feed her on frozen bloodworms and the occasional bit of beef heart, the nitrates are fine, ammonia is a bit higher than it should be but since i broke the test tube of my kit its been hard to test it properly. I try to do regular water changes, at least once a week as i don't have a filter. Any ideas as to why shes like this?
 
maybe she just likes being upside down?
 
Being upside down is not fine, it can be stressful and puts more weight on parts of the body they shouldn't be. My unfiltered tanks get changed 2-3 times per week, every 2nd or 3rd day depending on test results.

If as you say you have an unfiltered tank, you should be changing your water more frequently.

My kids broke my test tubes but it's easy enough to improvise using a couple of small glass jars (in my case I use a couple of shot glasses as my test tubes - been a while since I've drunk from them). Just keep them with the test kit.

For ammonia, anything over 0 is considered unsafe/toxic to an axie, if this is the case you have to do frequent partial (at least 20=30%) waterchanges, probably daily if your ammonia's been a bit high. You probably need to test daily. Once a week is too infrequent.

If she continues to float, then remove her from the tank, place her in a container of lowered dechlorinated water (so it covers her back), change this daily. If your room temperature is above 20C then consider putting the container in the fridge (as long as its above 5C). The fridge will slow its metabolism and destress your axie.

What is your tank temperature?
 
Right, i'll try doing more frequent water changes, would daily ones be too stressful?
The tank temp is 19c at the moment but its getting warmer here so i usually use a fan to keep the tank below 20c. If the water changes don't work and i have to put her in a smaller container, i'm not sure how i can protect her from my cat as my downstairs is open-plan and it is alot warmer upstairs. I don't think i will be able to put her in the fridge as its definately below 5c. Thanks for your help.
 
No daily ones are not stressful as long as they are partial waterchanges not a full waterchange.

If your temperature is warming up, it won't be a good idea to keep her just in the room, as the container will heat up faster than the tank, being less water.

Are you able to adjust your fridge gauge? Or do have a cool area in your house your cat can't get to (ie your bedroom, a closet or something similar)?

Whereabouts are you?
 
ok, what percentage water change should i do? I think i should make the water deeper in the tank anyway as i've kept in low, i'm not sure how deep the water should be anyway as the book i have tells me it should be as deep as the axolotl is long but i've seen tanks that are almost full. I guess it would help with the temp thing anyway if it was deeper. I can't really think of anywhere else in the house that is cooler than where the tank is...i really don't want to have to resort to putting her in the fridge. Im in the UK in the midlands. Also, my substrate is small gravel underneath largish pebbles, the book i have tells me to clean the whole tank including substrate once a week but i read on here that that would cause the tank to cycle so i've only cleaned a bit of gunk off!
 
Hi, i've just got home, i've done a partial water change + added a bit more to make the water deeper. The temp is at 20c, i tested the water before i did the change and got these readings -

NO3 = 50
NO2 = 0
Ammonia was between 0.25 & 0.50 (more towards 0.25)

she is really really trying to turn over, i've turned her the right way up myself but she just goes upside down again as soon as she starts to swim. I think shes bloated from air but its hard to stop her from gulping air because she does it before i even get close to the water with her food!
 
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How old are your test kits?

What is the pH of the tank? What size is the tank?

What is on the bottom of the tank?

Given your ammonia levels, I am surprised that the nitrate level is that low and that there isn't any nitrite showing up on the test kit...

What are you feeding and how often are you offering food?

Ed
 
My test kits are a year old, the pH of the tank is 7.6ish. The tank is 2ft x 1ft x 1ft.
On the bottom of the tank is smallish gravel underneath largish pebbles.
I feed her bloodworms from frozen and sometimes beef heart, once a day, she always eats her food and never refuses/spits it out (and shes not fat!)
 
The floating upside down could be a result of a gravel impaction.

The high ammonia levels are probably due to the frequent feedings and the fact that both of these foods result in a lot of particles being lost into the water where they begin to break down. You may want to consider removing the gravel entirely so you can make sure that the all of the uneaten food is being removed and the axololt cannot ingest any of it.

I was asking about the pH because if the pH is low (below 7) this reduces the toxicity of the ammonia. As it stands at the moment, you are going to have vacunn the gravel when you do water changes to make sure you are removing all of the uneaten food items.

If you are not already doing so, you should also consider doing 10-20% water changes daily to reduce the ammonia levels.

Typically it is recommended to replace the test kits yearly as the reagents do begin to degrade once you start using them.

You may want to consider the fridge treatment for the axolotl.



Ed
 
I don't think shes swallowed any gravel as its fully covered by the large pebbles (i got gravel when i first got her as i took the advice of the stupid pet shop person!) and she hasn't been at the bottom of the tank for ages.

How often should i feed her? Do you think i should feed her larger amounts less often? Shes not particularly skinny but she seems bloated from air so its hard to tell. Would it stress her out too much to take her out of her tank and feed her in a separate container?

I did think about removing the gravel but wouldn't that cause the tank to re-cycle (still not entirely sure what cycling is) and would this be too stressful for her at the moment? There is alot of waste at the bottom of the tank.

I'm now doing daily water changes and i'm gonna test it daily too (i'll have to use the old kit until the weekend) I think i'll see how she goes over the next week before i resort to the fridge treatment as i'm very wary of it and its just not practical)

Thanks for the advice :D
 
I'm positive that she swallowed gravel. They can easily root around under the rocks to snuffle in the gravel.

I think you should take her out, put her in the fridge, and see how much gravel she poops out.
 
ok, i'm REALLY not happy about putting her in the fridge but its seems to be the only way to help her, so, how do i do it? what temp should i make my fridge? How long will i need to keep her in there? And how do i reintroduce her to her tank? also, while shes in there, would it be beneficial to remove all of the gravel from the tank? would taking small amounts out say, a third every couple of weeks, prevent the tank from re-cycling? And finally, does anyone have a cooler for sale? Thanks x
 
The temperature of the fridge should be about 10C or so, if possible. Try not to go lower than 5C. Keep a large bottle of dechlorinated water in the fridge, next to the container, so you can do daily water changes. I would keep her there for a week to start. Reintroduction's easy. Just set the axolotl out for an hour or two while the water comes back up to room temperature, and put it back in the tank.

Removing the gravel is best. It would probably cause a mini-cycle, but that's fine as long as she's not in the tank. It's much easier to deal with a mini-cycle then.
 
If you remove the gravel in small amounts like some every several days then at the worst you would get a small cycle that shouldn't last longer than a couple of days (as the bacteria population would rebound). I strongly suspect that you are going to be surprised at the amount of deitritus that is going to come up out of the bottom.

With the feeding, feeding less frequently larger amounts isn't going to help, its the nature of the foods you are offering. For example, if you set some bloodworms into a container and let them thaw, the resulting liquid is full of protiens from the worms which when added to the tank breaks down into ammonia.

Ed
 
leeloo said:
ok, i'm REALLY not happy about putting her in the fridge but its seems to be the only way to help her, so, how do i do it? what temp should i make my fridge? How long will i need to keep her in there? And how do i reintroduce her to her tank? also, while shes in there, would it be beneficial to remove all of the gravel from the tank? would taking small amounts out say, a third every couple of weeks, prevent the tank from re-cycling? And finally, does anyone have a cooler for sale? Thanks x
Click to expand...

I think leeloo you need to read through sentences clearily, because you keep repeating your questions and everyone is giving you advices 5 times a post.

Accept everyones oppinions because some of people on this forum have owned axies for many years. And i sure as hell have learnt a lot from one.

I would take out the gravel asap and all of it. not in bits, not in quarters, no. All of it. in the mean time id have your axie in the fridge while the tank is being cycled. then the tank is ready for your axie once your axie is healthier.
When the axie is in the fridge, all i can say that itll be like heaven. Perfect temperature, darkness (unless you open the fridge. i used to put a rag over the container to stop the light glare).
and my axie never really ate while she was in the fridge. jsut became really relaxed. Take the time and let her survive in the fridge and fix herself wile the tank cycles.

I removed all live plants form my tank because i didnt want any light shining in the tank. when i had plants, they needed more light that i tought, and because of that they raised the ammonia and nitrate levels sky rocket. and made my axie very, very ill.

once again, use the help and put her in a containter and in to the fridge. i wont repeat what others advised, because that would be pointless.
 
sorry, i didn't mean to get anyones back up! i mostly replied when i was at work so didn't have much time to read stuff thoroughly and i wanted to make sure i got all my questions in so people could answer and i could help my axie straight away. :(

I've had trouble getting my fridge to the correct temp, it seems i have a very cold fridge! i think i've got it to 8-9 degrees now (i've put a thermometer in a container of water to double check!) I think i am going to use a sweet tub as her container, i want to put a lid on it (with holes punched out) so if the container gets knocked out of the fridge accidentally, she won't fall on the floor, i may be being a worrier but things have got knocked out the fridge before, including my damn thermometer a few days ago! is this ok? I know i've been told to put enough water in the container to cover her back, but seeing as shes upside down, should i put in enough water to cover her belly or put in a bit more so she can turn over on her own when she gets better? I will try and turn her over myself and put the water just covering her back first as she'll probably stay upright in really shallow water!)

I've read through info on cycling plenty of times but still don't fully understand how it works. As you are telling me to take all the gravel out and re-cycle the tank, should i clean the tank itself? (there is alot of waste in and under the gravel) i am gonna keep the large pebbles in.

Thanks again for your help and apologies again.
 
8-9 should be fine for the temp. good luck
 
You do not want to strip the tank down unless you have no other choice. If you remove the gravel but do not scrub down or wash out the tank, this will leave a larger population of the bacteria in the tank shortening the cycling process. If you have a large enough siphon you can remove the gravel as well as any gunk at the same time.
The reason I suggested removing it over several days as opposed to all at once is because this will allow the bacterial populations to increase on the remaining items (like the sides of the tank) shortening the cycling process as opposed to removing everything (and potentially doing a 100% or close to it water change at one time) which can cause the bacterial populations to crash and requiring the whole process to start over again.

Cycling is the period of time it takes for several different bacteria to reach sufficient population levels to transform the ammonia secreted as waste by the animals (this includes other types of bacteria as well as the axolotl) in your tank to nitrate. Ammonia, and nitrite (the second step in the process of converting ammonia to nitrite) are toxic to the axolotls while nitrate is fairly non-toxic (excess levels (>80 ppm can begin to suppress or suppress the immunesystem). When the populations of bacteria have become sufficiently established you cannot detect ammonia or nitrite in the tank because as fast as it is produced it is consumed by these bacteria.

You need to monitor the levels in the tank so you know where it stands with the cycle. As the axolotl has been removed you may need to feed the bacteria to keep thier populations from crashing.

Ed
 
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