Very sick little guy <IMG SRC="http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":-(" BORDER=0>

[kat]

Hi guys. I've had my axolotl (Hugo) for about 5 years now, and quite recently he has become quite sick. He has not eaten for a few weeks except on one occasion, even though he used to love eating all the time. He has also lost quite a bit of his balance and will roll over and has a lot of trouble straightening himself up again. When he rolls over he usually opens his mouth completely as well as straightens out/pushes together his two back legs (I've touched him when he is like this and he is as stiff as a board). I've noticed he has a tiny brown mark/raised spot on the inside of his lip, and I have no idea what this is. He has also lost all of his gills.

I have another axolotl in the tank and she is doing very well, full gills and active, so I'd say something is actually wrong with Hugo, not the tank. The water is a little bit too warm (around 20 degrees) but otherwise everything seems in order. My filter creates a lot of ripples though, could this be a bad thing?

I went to a pet shop the other day and they've given me some aquarium salt for calming as well as a product called melafix, which I'm adding 2.75 teaspoons of per day. The lady at the shop said to be careful with this product though as it contains an ingredient than can be quite harmful to them.

I can see him now from where I am sitting, and he is slightly rolled and has his mouth open a little bit, he looks so sad. Please help me

 

[jennifer]

When they lose part of their gills, they tend to gulp air, and thus float. He sounds quite sick, but I don't know what the root cause may be.

Try to lower the temperature in the tank. Refrigerating Hugo might give him a better chance of recovery, but there's no guarantee of that.

 

[kelizabethk]

I went to an aquarium and got the water tested- all clear. Little bit of amonia (spel?) but nothing too harmful. I bought something to help with that just in case though.

He isn't swimming to the top of the tank for air, but I have a few times taken him to the surface to put some air on his gills, which seems to make him a bit active afterwards. Should I still continue with this?

The advice I got from the aquarium is to-
-take out the gravel, even though it's the only thing he can stabalise himself on
-change water twice a week
-keep using salt and melafix
-monitor progress

I asked about putting him in the fridge and she said that may be OK, but I could just keep the temperature of the entire tank down which would probably be better for him.

If anyone has had any similar problems please let me know what you've done! Any other advice is appreciated too

 

[heihei]

Best way to keep ammonia down, little as it may be, is by waterchanges than any chemical product that binds/locks the ammonia.

Putting him in the fridge will do a few things, the cold water will slow his metabolism down in order to give him a chance to heal and destress.

Colder water also has more oxygen in it, and you can keep the water low enough, above his fin, so he doesn't lose balance and float/wobble to the side and invariably get stressed.

 

[kelizabethk]

Ok great, thanks. I have changed the water (maybe a quarter/fifth of it) today and will do so again soon. I've got a frozen drink bottle floating in there too to keep the temp down.

Should I put him in the fridge though? I have never, ever heard of doing this before besides on this forum so I'm just a little worried. If I do end up doing this, how long would I keep him in there for? As in, what would tell me that he has been in there long enough?

I'm also concerned about this brown thing on the inside of his lip. Anybody have any ideas on what this could be? It looks like it's getting bigger.

Thanks for the help so far guys.

 

[heihei]

Axies can live in temperatures down to 5 degrees celcius. They prefer colder temps than warm.

So as long as your fridge isn't below 5 degrees. Test by placing a glass of water and thermometer in the back and check in 15/20 minutes.

If ok, then use 2 containers of dechlorinated water (if they'll both fit in fridge).
**Put him in one of them, put a lid on, wrap with a teatowel (to stop temp fluctuations) and any light flashes when door opens and shuts) then place in
fridge.
*** If need be, lower the water to just above his fin to stop any wobbling/floating issues.)
**Place 2nd container in fridge. (if fridge isn't big enough,then use a soft drink bottle filled with dechlorinated water)

The 2nd container/bottled water is for the complete daily waterchange you will need to do each day.

You need to keep him in the fridge for as long as he needs it, till hopefully he improves, be it a few days to weeks (my sister's kept her adults in fridge for several weeks during varying illnesses)

While in the fridge, if your temperature is lower than 9 degrees he may not eat, and you may find bolus/vomit and poo within the first few days of being in fridge (this is normal, if you see it)

Sorry, no idea on the brown thing. My sister's adults has white lumps on inside of their lips (they're dark wildtypes). Apart from other axie, are there any other companions in tank or something that he could have hurt himself on?

 

[kelizabethk]

I have a feeling my fridge is going to be way too cold - the rice I had for dinner was frozen solid when I took it out! I'll still test and see though, it may be a bit warmer towards the top.

I've been doing a bit of reading on this fridge method and I have seen that feeding is not to be expected while in there, not that he is doing much anyway! I also read about vomiting/pooing, which I hope he does either of soon- at least it shows something is working inside him!

I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

[kelizabethk]

Well that was successful, I went downstairs and put the thermometer in a cup and it smashed. I never knew how fragile they were, I honestly didn't even hear it clink with the bottom of the glass. Oh well. I guess I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow now to test the water/put him in.

 

[jennifer]

How long has the tank been set up? Having ammonia (even a TRACE) in a long-term setup tank is actually a pretty serious sign of a problem. Even if the amount of ammonia isn't enough to hurt them, the presence of ANY ammonia is telling you one of two things: (1) there has been a recent increase in the amount of waste in the tank (poo or uneaten food), thus the beneficial bacteria can't keep up with it, or (2) you have done something recently to "wipe out" a significant fraction of your good bacteria (such as a major filter/substrate cleaning).

When you say you "bought something" to help with the ammonia, alarm bells go off in my head. Pet shops are always eager to "sell you something" - that is just good business, I guess we can't blame them for that. But Heihei is right, the way to deal with ammonia is water changes. Detox products don't deal with the underlying problem.

These articles might help you make sense of what we are saying (and what the pet shop is saying):
http://www.caudata.org/cc/faq/FAQwat.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/waterquality.shtml

I wish I had something worthwhile to say about the brown spot on the lip, but I haven't heard of this before. Axolotls do get moles, warts, and tumors, just like any animal, so it could be something of this sort. If it were an infection, it would probably look redish or fuzzy.

 

[sherri]

My axie had a serious problem with her balance, and couldn't straighten herself. She also did a lot of rolling around herself, and didnt eat. I took her to a vet, and she had a bacterial infection in her nervous system. It was a serious case, so I had to inject her with antibiotics the vet gave me. That was some months ago, and she is happy now and eating well, however her walking still isn't normal. It can take quite a while recover from totally.
If this sounds like your axie, I would definately take him to a specialist vet.
Good luck

 

[kelizabethk]

I got a cotton bud and actually removed the brown thing myself. Probably a bad thing for me to do, but at least it's gone now. He already seems a bit better.

I've had the tank with axolotls for about 7-8 years and can remember having a problem with ammonia about 7 years ago, so I would think I've always had a problem. I was actually at an aquarium, and they didn't try to sell me the stuff for ammonia, I wanted to buy it. So it wasn't them trying to make a quick buck, but I can see what you're saying. I have put it in for now to help Hugo get better faster. I'm changing the water twice a week now so I will see how that goes, probably won't continue with this liquid for much longer.

Thanks heaps for your post Sherri. Did your axie also open up her mouth when she rolled? I'm not sure if he's losing his balance or if he's just too sick to stand upright.

 

[sherri]

Kelizabethk, I don't think my axie had her mouth open when she rolled around herself. She did it at very high speed, though. Apart from that she was just lying on her side most of the time. Hope thats some help to you, and I really hope Hugo gets better soon