What subspecies?

[Zach42]

Someone found these newts in Monroe county, Indiana and thought they were two different subspecies, a Central and Red spotted. I believe this is within the intergrade range for the two subspecies in Indiana, but I would like to hear some more opinions on what subspecies they resemble more.

 

[EasternNewtLove]

In my opinion, the lighter one looks more like a N. v. v. since he has bigger, and many more spots. While the darker one looks more like N. v. l. since he has very small and very few spots.

 

[Jennewt]

Coloration in Notos is so variable that I would hesitate to say anything about what they resemble. The formerly-named subspecies of Notophthalmus are not taxonomically valid; there is not enough genetic difference among them to even call them subspecies. They are just "morphs" or races.

 

[EasternNewtLove]

I wasn't saying the color was what differentiated them. I was just using color as a basis for them to identify the one I was talking about.

 

[Jennewt]

I wasn't saying the color was what differentiated them. I was just using color as a basis for them to identify the one I was talking about.

Yes, I understood that. What I meant to imply is that the person who thought they were two different subspecies was mistaken, both because either race could "look like" either of these animals, and also because there aren't really any subspecies.

 

[EasternNewtLove]

Ohhh ok.