Which Plethodontidae is easy for a beginner?

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hi Folks,
i need some advice on keeping Plethodontidae species
i do have some experiences with Cynops, Paramesotriton etc...
i am new to Plethodontidae species. i have never keep any before. but i saw them available recently specifically Eurycea guttolineata and very curious and interested about them
i hope to get more information on housing them properly.
a few species i research came to mind but i am not sure if they are easy for a beginner
one thing i am concern is the cooler temp the Plethodontidae species seems to need a range of 20C and below?
Eurycea longicauda - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea guttolineata - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea cirrigera - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon grobmani - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me :D - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon glutinosus - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me :D - can these be house at 22C?
thanks and have a nice day
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hello Folks
i see some interesting Plethodontidae are quite common.
Plethodon glutinosus and Eurycea cirrigera
may i know if they are easy for a beginner? are they easy to breed? can they survive well in higher temps like 22C degrees celsius?
thanks
 

bhill368

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Oshkosh, WI
Country
United States
Hey! Sorry no one has replied to you yet! I don't have much experience with these kinds of Salamanders, but I'll try to help you out a bit.

I have done a little research on the two species you seem interested in. Eurycea cirrigera seems to be a semi-aquatic species and so I think that, as a beginner, Plethodon glutinosus would be easier to care for. This way you can have a strictly terrestrial habitat. You wouldn't have to worry about water quality as much and a set up is typically cheaper that way. It is also worthy to note that Plethodon glutinosus tend to be aggressive when defending territories, so you may want a large tank if your planning on having a couple, or maybe just stick with one if you are just having it for education or recreational purposes. They both are reported to eat small invertebrates, so if you can set up a living terrarium ahead of time and get it stable, keeping them fed should be pretty cheap as well. However, if you are intimidated by that, flightless fruit flies can be cultured pretty easily for them and you can just dust them with powder for extra nutrients. I personally have a living terrarium of isopods, millipedes, snails, and some worms.

All the information I gathered was found on Amphibiaweb.org. I suggest taking a look for yourself and see what their habits are and their needs to come to a decision. This hobby always requires a bit of homework. It is totally worth it in the end though! I hope this helps!
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
hi bhill368,
thanks for kind advice
ya i do like Plethodon glutinosus especially those with golden/yellowish flecks or spots very much.
but i do read breeding them is difficult and the babies are very hard to care for?
any reasons why the babies are hard to care for? i can't seems to find much information on them.
other .Plethodontidae which i am very interested is Eurycea longicauda, these are simply gorgeous looking. but very little information can be found about keeping and breeding them.
hope if anyone has more information can share about them
cheers!

Hey! Sorry no one has replied to you yet! I don't have much experience with these kinds of Salamanders, but I'll try to help you out a bit.

I have done a little research on the two species you seem interested in. Eurycea cirrigera seems to be a semi-aquatic species and so I think that, as a beginner, Plethodon glutinosus would be easier to care for. This way you can have a strictly terrestrial habitat. You wouldn't have to worry about water quality as much and a set up is typically cheaper that way. It is also worthy to note that Plethodon glutinosus tend to be aggressive when defending territories, so you may want a large tank if your planning on having a couple, or maybe just stick with one if you are just having it for education or recreational purposes. They both are reported to eat small invertebrates, so if you can set up a living terrarium ahead of time and get it stable, keeping them fed should be pretty cheap as well. However, if you are intimidated by that, flightless fruit flies can be cultured pretty easily for them and you can just dust them with powder for extra nutrients. I personally have a living terrarium of isopods, millipedes, snails, and some worms.

All the information I gathered was found on Amphibiaweb.org. I suggest taking a look for yourself and see what their habits are and their needs to come to a decision. This hobby always requires a bit of homework. It is totally worth it in the end though! I hope this helps!
 

Natalie

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
64
Reaction score
3
Points
8
Country
Netherlands
Hi Folks,
i need some advice on keeping Plethodontidae species
i do have some experiences with Cynops, Paramesotriton etc...
i am new to Plethodontidae species. i have never keep any before. but i saw them available recently specifically Eurycea guttolineata and very curious and interested about them
i hope to get more information on housing them properly.
a few species i research came to mind but i am not sure if they are easy for a beginner
one thing i am concern is the cooler temp the Plethodontidae species seems to need a range of 20C and below?
Eurycea longicauda - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea guttolineata - can these be house at 22C?
Eurycea cirrigera - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon grobmani - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me :D - can these be house at 22C?
Plethodon glutinosus - do they have yellow spots or white spots? seems abit yellow to me :D - can these be house at 22C?
thanks and have a nice day

Hello, I second the vote for pletodon glutinous, although I've not kept them, I know their range extends to Florida, so I would expect that they can deal with 22C at least for short periods. Their morphs or phenotypes can be quite diverse though. Some are quite robust, with certain color patterns, while others are thin with other color patterns. I'd suggest buying this species in person so you are happy with your new, little friend. I've heard Eurecea prove challenging. Many people have started keeping Aneides sp, so these are also seemingly not too hard to keep. Yes, many lungless salamanders bite each other, self-automate their tails (I experienced this while picking up a Eurecea)or eat their eggs when startled, so also something to keep in mind. I keep Desmognus(spelling), and they are easy to keep and handle warmer temps better.
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hi Nat1
Thanks for your kind advice.:D
yes this family Plethodontids is very diverse and there seems to be very little species specific information about keeping and caring for them.
for example i have seen Eurycea Guttolineata available for a while but i am not very sure how to take good care of them.:confused:
Pletodon Glutinous is commonly available and on my wish list, but a few question marks about them.. they seems to have short lifespan in captivity? difficult to breed?
and also Arboreal types Bolitoglossa mexicana. how do you take care of them?
thanks

Hello, I second the vote for pletodon glutinous, although I've not kept them, I know their range extends to Florida, so I would expect that they can deal with 22C at least for short periods. Their morphs or phenotypes can be quite diverse though. Some are quite robust, with certain color patterns, while others are thin with other color patterns. I'd suggest buying this species in person so you are happy with your new, little friend. I've heard Eurecea prove challenging. Many people have started keeping Aneides sp, so these are also seemingly not too hard to keep. Yes, many lungless salamanders bite each other, self-automate their tails (I experienced this while picking up a Eurecea)or eat their eggs when startled, so also something to keep in mind. I keep Desmognus(spelling), and they are easy to keep and handle warmer temps better.
 

bhill368

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Oshkosh, WI
Country
United States
Hey,

I am sorry, I don't have much experience keeping this group of caudates. So, I cannot give you for sure answers. Everything I said early is from doing some digging on the site that I posted above. I would suggest doing some research on those species, combining that information with common caudate keeping practices, and then make your decisions from there. That would be the most beneficial and efficient way to go about this. A lot of times this hobby requires a bit of research and set up ahead of time, but it is worth it!
 

JM29

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
324
Reaction score
36
Points
28
Location
Brittany
Country
France
Hello !
22°C may be seen as a maximum, occasionnal temperature instead of an usual temperature, for Eurycea or Plethodon.
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hi JM29,
Thanks for advice.
What's the reasonable temperature range to keep Eurycea or Plethodon?
always below 21C?
thanks

Hello !
22°C may be seen as a maximum, occasionnal temperature instead of an usual temperature, for Eurycea or Plethodon.
 

JM29

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
324
Reaction score
36
Points
28
Location
Brittany
Country
France
For Plethodon (P. cinereus) are in a non-heated room where the temperatures vary between +4°C and +21°C. All my friends who have several Plethodon species (and Eurycea too) do have such fresh rooms.

Now, it's possible that very southern species (Plethodon albagula from Texas for example) can thrive well at higher temperatures.

Other advices would be welcome.
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hi JM29,
Thanks for your advice again. you are very helpful :D
Normally i see Eurycea guttolineata and Plethodon glutinosus available. other species of Plethodontidae are very hard to find. Very rarely i do see Eurycea longicauda and that's about it.
i read that Eurycea guttolineata and Plethodon glutinosus may come from N.Florida area
specifically do you have any experiences with them?
i read that Plethodon glutinosus has a rather short live span for about 5 years only?
Thanks and cheers

For Plethodon (P. cinereus) are in a non-heated room where the temperatures vary between +4°C and +21°C. All my friends who have several Plethodon species (and Eurycea too) do have such fresh rooms.

Now, it's possible that very southern species (Plethodon albagula from Texas for example) can thrive well at higher temperatures.

Other advices would be welcome.
 

JM29

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
324
Reaction score
36
Points
28
Location
Brittany
Country
France
Hi, ntny,

I'm sorry not to have personal experience with Eurycea species. Anyway you're right in that E. guttolineata is as south as north Florida and may accomodate higher temperatures. Nervertheless, Jean Raffaëlli (2013) cites temperatures between 5 and 18°C for E. guttolineata ; so temperatures above 22°C may not be permanent.

As for Plethodon glutinosus, this species group has been recently split in 14 to 16 semi-species. One of them (now called P. grobmani) does definitely exist in the northern part of Florida. So the remaining problem is : what P. glutinosus have you access to ? Be sure of its origin if possible.
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hi JM29,
Thank you for your kind advice again:D
Out of curiosity, Plethodon Serratus they seems to come from southern areas too eg: Louisiana. they are also very beautiful species :D
although it seems like they are not readily available for sale, hahaha!
do you have any experiences with them?
cheers!

Hi, ntny,

I'm sorry not to have personal experience with Eurycea species. Anyway you're right in that E. guttolineata is as south as north Florida and may accomodate higher temperatures. Nervertheless, Jean Raffaëlli (2013) cites temperatures between 5 and 18°C for E. guttolineata ; so temperatures above 22°C may not be permanent.

As for Plethodon glutinosus, this species group has been recently split in 14 to 16 semi-species. One of them (now called P. grobmani) does definitely exist in the northern part of Florida. So the remaining problem is : what P. glutinosus have you access to ? Be sure of its origin if possible.
 

JM29

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
324
Reaction score
36
Points
28
Location
Brittany
Country
France
Hi ntny,

Sorry, I've no personal experience with P. serratus.

Certainly P. serratus has a more southern range than P. cinereus and we might expect it to be exposed to higher temperatures. Nevertheless, while P. cinereus has a large and continuous home range, P. serratus' range is highly partitionned. 3 out of 4 of these parts comprise hilly or mountainous areas. Maybe P. serratus doesn't tolerate heat stress more than P. cinereus. Perhaps P. serratus live locally in micro-environments similar to P. cinereus.

For more detailed infos, please read :
https://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Plethodon/P_cinereus.shtml
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hello Folks
May i ask the experts here, which Plethodontidae species breeds "quite often" in captivity?
i did some search on this forum and it seems the below species are?
Eurycea bislineata/cirrigera
Hemidactylium scutatum
Pseudotriton ruber
Plethodon cinereus

on the other hand the larger Eurycea and Plethodon species doesn't seems to breed so easily?
cheers!
 

John

Founder
Staff member
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
8,029
Reaction score
189
Points
63
Age
43
Location
USA
Country
Ireland
Display Name
John Clare
It's a matter of offering cool habitat and a natural light cycle (ideally with a temperature cycle too). Small Plethodontidae and aquatic species seem to be "easier". Plethodon cinereus and small terrestrial Desmognathus species that don't have larvae are probably the easiest. You are correct on Pseudotriton ruber - if someone bet me I couldn't breed a lungless, I would try these. The others I wouldn't consider straightforward. Eurycea have a biphasic life cycle and Hemidactylium does too, as well as its own specific breeding habitat requirements. Bigger Plethodontids are generally tougher, but Aneides lugubris seems to be a good target. It's not just a matter of getting a species to lay eggs, but also getting the eggs to hatch.
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hi John
Thanks for your kind advice again.
yes i am highly interested in Plethodontidae species. but so far i have no luck obtaining them except Plethodon glutinosus which is pretty common. but they seems hard to breed.
it seems Plethodontidae species are hard and tricky to ship too due to low temperature requirements?
The eggs can't be detract from the females for shipping if i am not wrong.?
i do get some information from suppliers they have the following species soon
Pseudotriton ruber
Pseudotriton montanus floridanus
Gyrinophilus porphyriticus

Not very sure if i should go for Pseudotriton ruber as my first Plethodontidae ...?

Thanks and cheers!
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hello John and Folks,
i forgot to mention the supplier also have Desmognathus quadramaculatus available soon.
My question, is Desmognathus quadramaculatus easier or Pseudotriton ruber to keep and breed?
i am not sure about Pseudotriton montanus floridanus and Gyrinophilus porphyriticus as there are very little information about them.
thanks and cheers!
 

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
I don't know of anyone successfully breeding D. quadramaculatus in captivity. It seems to take a large tank with cold highly oxygenated water...I would guess maintained below 60F year round. I bred P. m. diastictus in the past. Gyrinophilus has taken me several years to reproduce successfully (aside from a handful of good eggs, most were killed by fungus). I finally have a good number developing this year. They are quite difficult to sex unless you find a pair together.
 

ntny

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
287
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Country
United States
Display Name
ntny
Hello Tim and folks,
thanks for your great advice.
i think i shall stick to Pseudotriton ruber for now .
btw my fridge is about 13C to 20C, sometime it gets colder to 10C depends on the weather.
surprisingly the weather does affect the fridge temperature
is this temperature range ok for Pseudotriton ruber?
thanks and cheers!
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • differencess:
    Daphnia water fleas, mosquito larvae and any larve will do
    +1
    Unlike
  • Lilith:
    Ok Thank You. ^-^
    +1
    Unlike
  • Austin Wayneg:
    I just got a tiger salamander and it's not eating
    +1
    Unlike
  • ArpTheAxolotl:
    Congrats. D6
    +1
    Unlike
  • SubZero:
    What are you feeding it
    +2
    Unlike
  • Austin Wayneg:
    Red worms
    +1
    Unlike
  • Audrey22:
    Try various foods to mimic a natural diet. If your worms are dead, try living things for sure. My newts prefer live food almost exclusively. My eastern newts eat snails, black worms, baby brine and others. They are like picky children. Maybe blood worms are their broccoli lol
    +1
    Unlike
  • rads:
    Hey there guys! My tank is cycled but I'm still battling ammonia spikes just when I get it down to zero. I keep the tank clean and do water changes when needed to lower it. Ammonia is about .25-.5 right now, 0 nitrite, 20 nitrate ppm. Not sure why two months in now it's still fluctuating?
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    @axolotl nerd, rads, the cycle has crashed or the tank wasnt fully cycled to start with. Remove the animals to a seperate tank or tub, give 100% daily water changes. It can take a while to cycle a tank if its yr first time.
    +2
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Toothpickthelotl:
    Hey guys! We had our first unexpected hot day and I was an idiot and forgot to put on the fan for my axolotl tank. When I came to feed her at around 7, I noticed the tank was 75 degrees!! It has never been this warm, it’s always a stable 67ish without a fan. It was only this warm for today (yesterday it was normal temps), and I immeditately got the fan on when I saw. It is down to 69 degrees now. Is my axie going to be ok with the increase in temperature for a day?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Toothpickthelotl:
    Oh that’s in Fahrenheit by the way, I think in Celsius it almost got up to 24 c if I’m not mistaken
    +1
    Unlike
  • Toothpickthelotl:
    Axie is showing no signs of stress whatsoever
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    A short temp spike is unlikely to cause any long term probs
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • gemdimps:
    Hi 👋🏻 I am desperately seeking cycling advice
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    NewtPoot has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    RCWaterPets has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
    Chat Bot: RCWaterPets has left the room. +1
    Top