Which Salamander/Newt is for me?

[eschaton]

Hey all,

I'm in the planning stages of a large tropical paludarium. It's an attempt to put together a balanced ecosystem, with "community" organisms both above and below the water. Tank will probably be 115 gallons, with 1/3rd of the space land.

I love salamanders and newts, and I hope I can find a species which will fit the following needs.

1. Small (under four inches if aquatic, slightly larger should be okay for land)

2. Peaceful in a community tank (water will include a lot of small fish and freshwater shrimp, land should have mourning geckos and poison dart frogs, possibly a small land snail and/or a small crab). I know newts can be voracious predators, and I don't want to see my stock decimated.

3. Tropical or sub-tropical (tank will be heated to 78 degrees minimum)

I've been reading up on newts and salamanders, and so far it seems that while there should be ones which fit my needs, none of them are kept by hobbyists.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Abrahm]

I would highly recommend against mixing amphibian or reptile species together. A 115 gallon aquarium sounds quite large but is actually quite small compared to actual habitats and I can imagine many disaster situations occurring in such a setup. Transmission of disease and parasites is the first problem that may occur and territory disputes and aggression are certainly possible also. Some animals can be stressed merely by the presence and movement of another species always within their territory.

Keeping each species separately allows you to provide the optimum habitat for each animal in your care. Often multi-species enclosures require that some concessions be made to account for all the animals being housed. It also allows you to make changes to the enclosure quickly for the benefit of all inhabitants and such changes usually require far more forethought in a multi-species enclosure.

There are very few caudates that will do well at sustained tropical temperatures. I've heard accounts that Cynops pyrrhogaster can sustain temperatures of 78F for a limited time. Most caudates are temperate species and prefer cooler microhabitats within their regions. Of the species that occur in tropical latitudes I know that several live in cloud forests or other high elevation areas and thus cooler temperatures.

It is also very rare to see these animals in the pet trade as they ship very badly and usually die shortly after or during export. Even if you were to find these salamanders, of which all (I believe) are Plethodontids of the genus Bolitoglosso, I would recommend against them as they will most likely die.

It is certainly possible that someone else may know a species that fits your requirements, but I would not advise you to hold out too much hope.

 

[eschaton]

Your concern is noted. I'm taking care to research this right and only have the smallest, hardiest, and most gregarious species in the tanks. I figured this would exclude virtually all newts and salamanders (as they tend to be cold-water, territorial little buggers), but I thought I would inquire from experts before I discarded the idea of using the order entirely.

 

[Jennewt]

I can't think of any newts that would fare well at 78F minimum. The most tropical species that I know of (Cynops ensicauda) do OK up to about 80F MAXimum, but even they are best kept cooler than 78 in winter. If you were thinking about the South American tropical species, you are correct, none of them are commonly kept by hobbyists.

 

[lims]

oooooooo...

Please can I have a link to some of these "unkept" south american species, I'm not going to attempt to keep them, just out of interest because they sound mysterious...........

 

[Abrahm]

Finding information about these salamanders is quite difficult. I wouldn't even know of any publication that would be easily acceptable to find information about them. You can glean a few details from the internet by searching for Bolitoglossa or Mushroom-tongued salamander. Amphibian field guides for central or equatorial South America may have descriptions or natural history information on these animals. Caudata Culture has pictures of some Bolitoglossa of the family Plethodontidae.

 

[i_love_necturus]

Amphiumas?

I have heard that amphiumas (as seen here, http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Amphiuma/Amphiuma.shtml) can do OK in warm temperatures, up to 80 even! If you were to get some amphiumas (you could probably keep a few in a 115 gallon) they would need either a 100% water tank, or one with very small land area, they have been known to come on land but only during heavy rainstorms. There are three species: one-toed which are small and come from very mucky swamps, but you'd probably not find them for sale. There are 2 others, two and three toed amphiumas, they can get over 3 feet in length. I've seen both for sale, on kingsnake and by Nature Coast Exotics. Biological supply companies sell the latter 2 species aswell, I know Wards Biological does. Do a quick Google search and you might get lucky.

You should probably get another opinion on amphiumas first.

 

[Abrahm]

You should probably get another opinion on amphiumas first.

I can foresee two problems here. The first being that I doubt that Amphiuma can do well at sustained temperatures of 78F or more. Secondly these animals are large and voracious predators. Mixing them with fish, shrimp even poison dart frogs and mourning geckos is only going to result in a tragedy. A very expensive multi-species tragedy when then Amphiuma chows down on a poison dart frog and both animals end up deceased.

 

[i_love_necturus]

I should have said that they would need to be alone, that goes for ALL salamanders too. It was an idea, I know its not a perfect one, but it was an idea.

 

[Kaysie]

Ryan, I'm not sure where you got information saying amphiuma do well at temperatures that high, but it's definitely not true. Just as with all temperate caudates, amphiuma need to be kept cool (preferably below 70). Again, just as with all temperate caudates, amphiuma will die if kept at sustained warm temperatures.

 

[i_love_necturus]

I read that right on CC, http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Amphiuma/Amphiuma.shtml, here is the exact thing I read: "The temperature of the enclosures should not be allowed to rise above 26.7°C (80°F)" so it says they COULD live in 80°F but lower would be better, as always. I guess if you kept it at 78 all the time the amphiumas could live...

 

[Kaysie]

The maximum allowable temperature is NOT the same as the average sustained temperature. Amphiuma will probably not survive if the temperature is kept at 78F all the time.

 

[i_love_necturus]

I know, I was just putting that idea out there because of the low amount of choices for salamanders in such a warm tank, I would personally not do it unless I had a long cool period like winter or something, but still I'd want the best for the amphiuma.

 

[Abrahm]

If you knew that it wouldn't work then it wouldn't be a very good response to the original poster's request and is actually quite misleading. You should include important such as that only being a maximum temperature.

 

[Ed]

There are a number of good articles (primarily describing new species but some with habitat information) in the various journals such as Herpetologica. You can do an online search for the information (a good place to start is www.herplit.com and search thier online data base). There is also some good information published in some of the overseas journals such as Salamandra.

I have dealt with bolitoglossid imports at work and pretty much all of them die within six months despite major efforts to stabalize them. A large portion of the reason they do not do well is how they are treated pre and during import and before they reach the hobbyists hands and that a large portion of them are infected with chytrid..

Ryan,

Typically the articles list a thermal maxima (Tmax) for the salamanders above which you are risking death of the animal. The closer you approach that temperature, the more stress which is placed on the animal. This stress is what will kill the animal as it suppresses the immune system and reduces the life span of the animal which is why even though the article lists not to go above it, keeping an animal close to it is also not the best for the long term health of the caudate. Keep in mind that in the wild, these animals can retreat to niches that prevent thier constant exposure to those temperatures. In the case of amphiumas, burrows down into the mud in the bottom of the waterways.

Ed


Ed