Hi all, my axie Diablo has formed some wierd white bumps all over his body. They weren't there last night and I don't think they were this morning. Is it ok for me to add regular table salt to his water, I heard that salt helps, or do I need a special salt solution. I did a slight water change used cooler water to lower the temp from around 70 degrees to 60. Is this ok? I know temp fluctuation isn't good but I don't know what to do. There are 2 other feeder fish in the tank with him could they have something to do with this? I'm not too nervous yet but I'm getting there. I just need some advice!
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White bumps all over!!!!HELP
- Thread starter savannah
- Start date
Darkmaverick
Site Contributor
Hi Savannah,
Please post photos of the white bumps and post them here. We will need to take a look at them and ask you some general history before we can attempt to diagnose it. Treatment options vary with diagnosis so do not do anything yet. Jumping to conclusions can be dangerous.
The only thing i can recommend at this stage while we wait for your photos, is to fridge your axie.
I would recommend you fridge your axie.Fridging your axie will destress it, boost its immune system and render harmful pathogens (both bacterial and fungal) less viable.
- Set your fridge to about 5 degree celsius.
- Put your axie in a container large enough to allow it to stretch its limbs and tail comfortably.
- Fill with fresh dechlorinated water enough to submerge it but not allowing it to float.
- Cover with a lid. You can use a perforated lid or netting to prevent it jumping out.
- Use a tea towel to cover it to keep the environment dark.
- Perform 100% water changes daily with clean dechlorinated water.
- You can pre prepare bottles of water in the fridge.
- Continue to offer a variety of nutritious food daily. Try live wriggly food like blackworms, bloodworms, earthworms. You can also try the usual pellet, offer treats of shrimp and fish etc. Otherwise you can also blend everything in a food processor and then roll the resultant mash into a pea sized ball to try offer your axie. Remove uneaten food within 20 min.
I would try fridging your axolotl for 2 weeks and continually monitor for improvement. Please update on the progress every couple of days.
Cheers
Please post photos of the white bumps and post them here. We will need to take a look at them and ask you some general history before we can attempt to diagnose it. Treatment options vary with diagnosis so do not do anything yet. Jumping to conclusions can be dangerous.
The only thing i can recommend at this stage while we wait for your photos, is to fridge your axie.
I would recommend you fridge your axie.Fridging your axie will destress it, boost its immune system and render harmful pathogens (both bacterial and fungal) less viable.
- Set your fridge to about 5 degree celsius.
- Put your axie in a container large enough to allow it to stretch its limbs and tail comfortably.
- Fill with fresh dechlorinated water enough to submerge it but not allowing it to float.
- Cover with a lid. You can use a perforated lid or netting to prevent it jumping out.
- Use a tea towel to cover it to keep the environment dark.
- Perform 100% water changes daily with clean dechlorinated water.
- You can pre prepare bottles of water in the fridge.
- Continue to offer a variety of nutritious food daily. Try live wriggly food like blackworms, bloodworms, earthworms. You can also try the usual pellet, offer treats of shrimp and fish etc. Otherwise you can also blend everything in a food processor and then roll the resultant mash into a pea sized ball to try offer your axie. Remove uneaten food within 20 min.
I would try fridging your axolotl for 2 weeks and continually monitor for improvement. Please update on the progress every couple of days.
Cheers
Ugh! the pics are blurry I can't get a good shot of diablo at all. He's not that big in the first place just a 3 inch long juevy. I looked all through the 'sick axie' pages and came across a similar case to mine from July 2008 and the same thing you said was recomended: salt batheing and water changing on a regular basis! This makes me feel better knowing more about whats going on. Thanks for your insite!
Darkmaverick
Site Contributor
Hi Savannah,
Maintaining good water quality, temperature and low currents is a must as a first line 'treatment' against any illness. Use a colourimetric solution type test kit and ensure you have 0 ammonia, nitrites and <60 nitrates. Perform regular 20% water changes.
Fridging is a conservative non-invasive treatment that is highly therapeutic. You can safely fridge your axie nontheless.
Salt baths are only indicated when there is a fungal infection. If the bumps you are seeing are bacterial abscesses, salt baths will be ineffective as they cannot penetrate the abscess. Antibiotics will be required in such situations. Hence i wanted to see the photos.
Please do not salt bath your axie unncessarily. Please hold off the salt baths until i get some info from you.
Can you try describe the white bumps in as great detail as you can? Do they appear cottony? Does it have regular or irregular edges? Are they circular and protruding? Any discharge from them? How big are each of them? Where are they distributed around the body?
Cheers.
Maintaining good water quality, temperature and low currents is a must as a first line 'treatment' against any illness. Use a colourimetric solution type test kit and ensure you have 0 ammonia, nitrites and <60 nitrates. Perform regular 20% water changes.
Fridging is a conservative non-invasive treatment that is highly therapeutic. You can safely fridge your axie nontheless.
Salt baths are only indicated when there is a fungal infection. If the bumps you are seeing are bacterial abscesses, salt baths will be ineffective as they cannot penetrate the abscess. Antibiotics will be required in such situations. Hence i wanted to see the photos.
Please do not salt bath your axie unncessarily. Please hold off the salt baths until i get some info from you.
Can you try describe the white bumps in as great detail as you can? Do they appear cottony? Does it have regular or irregular edges? Are they circular and protruding? Any discharge from them? How big are each of them? Where are they distributed around the body?
Cheers.
herpvet
Veterinarian
Hi Rayson,
Sorry to change subject somewhat, but I just wondered if you had managed to find any scientific references to the beneficial effects of fridging? Apart from the short note in the Wright & Whitaker book, and mention in a couple of old axolotl papers, I'm still looking, and would really like a useful reference for a paper I'm preparing!
Cheers,
Bruce.
Darkmaverick
Site Contributor
Hi Bruce,
Admittedly a lot of the scientific journals regarding temperature and axolotls come from the 70s and 80s, i cannot find recent papers.
Most of these older papers discuss about cold temperature and the effect on axolotl renal function - sodium, chloride (and water) transport and also how cold temperature stablilises intracellular milieu. There was also one paper discussing about the locomotor performance and muscle contractile function in cold temperatures. Several papers discussed the effect on immunity due to cold temperature as well as the impact on metabolism and hormonal regulation. I am not sure if they are they what you are seeking for.
I will private message you what i found. I cannot get hold of PDF versions of all of them but i can try getting the librarian (with bribes of donuts
) to search the archives for a hardcopy if you do need them.
Perhaps you might like to contact the researchers at the Ambystoma Genetic Stock Centre for more information? They do advocate fridging.
http://www.ambystoma.org/AGSC/faq.htm#coldhousing
Cheers
Admittedly a lot of the scientific journals regarding temperature and axolotls come from the 70s and 80s, i cannot find recent papers.
Most of these older papers discuss about cold temperature and the effect on axolotl renal function - sodium, chloride (and water) transport and also how cold temperature stablilises intracellular milieu. There was also one paper discussing about the locomotor performance and muscle contractile function in cold temperatures. Several papers discussed the effect on immunity due to cold temperature as well as the impact on metabolism and hormonal regulation. I am not sure if they are they what you are seeking for.
I will private message you what i found. I cannot get hold of PDF versions of all of them but i can try getting the librarian (with bribes of donuts
) to search the archives for a hardcopy if you do need them.Perhaps you might like to contact the researchers at the Ambystoma Genetic Stock Centre for more information? They do advocate fridging.
http://www.ambystoma.org/AGSC/faq.htm#coldhousing
Cheers
herpvet
Veterinarian
Hi Rayson,
Thanks very much for that and the PMs - have PMed you back.
Cheers,
Bruce.
Thanks very much for that and the PMs - have PMed you back.
Cheers,
Bruce.
Hi Bruce,
Admittedly a lot of the scientific journals regarding temperature and axolotls come from the 70s and 80s, i cannot find recent papers.
Most of these older papers discuss about cold temperature and the effect on axolotl renal function - sodium, chloride (and water) transport and also how cold temperature stablilises intracellular milieu. There was also one paper discussing about the locomotor performance and muscle contractile function in cold temperatures. Several papers discussed the effect on immunity due to cold temperature as well as the impact on metabolism and hormonal regulation. I am not sure if they are they what you are seeking for.
I will private message you what i found. I cannot get hold of PDF versions of all of them but i can try getting the librarian (with bribes of donuts
Perhaps you might like to contact the researchers at the Ambystoma Genetic Stock Centre for more information? They do advocate fridging.
http://www.ambystoma.org/AGSC/faq.htm#coldhousing
Cheers
I bought a copy of the AGSC old newsletters. They are full of information about cold treatment. I would offer you some PDFs, but my CDs aren't working in my new computer. It may be worth it for you to purchase a copy. The caveat that I would mention is that, although the AGSC is certainly considered authoritative, I don't think they did any controlled studies.
This looks like a very interesting convo. that's sprung up sonce I last checked on replies. As far as Diablo goes I did the salt bathing and his bumps went down, I decided to change his water altogether and pull all the stops adding an electrolyte solution and some other healthy water balancing solutions to his water. As for the question of what his bumps looked like, they were protruding, not discharging anything and not cottony but like circular bumps like the ones people get sometimes. They were no more than a centimeter and a half away from each other but most have faided by now. There are still a few and I will monitor them closely but I have faith that they'll go down. Thank you for all the help guys I love this site. You make me want to get another amphibian it's like a big community of amphibian loving people it's great!
Darkmaverick
Site Contributor
Hi Savannah,
I guess you have already went ahead with the salt baths....
Ok this bit troubles me somewhat "I decided to change his water altogether and pull all the stops adding an electrolyte solution and some other healthy water balancing solutions to his water.".
1) Whatever treatments ie. salt baths are carried out in a separate tub or container and it shouldn't be performed in the main tank.
2) If you mean changing 100% of water in the container for fridging or salt baths, i would say that is fine. However if you refer to the main tank, i would advise on regular 20% water changes rather than an overhaul.
3) Why are you putting electrolye solutions and "water balancing solutions" in the water? You really shouldn't be tampering with chemical additives. If you are diligent and meticulous with your water chemistry testing and regular 20% water changes as well as siphoning detritus and uneaten food, there is no necessity to use 'water balancing solutions' such as pH up and down solutions. You want to solve any underlying problems, not mask a problem.
4) I am glad the bumps are resolving but i really advise you to use a conservative approach rather than jumping the gun and administer your own treatments. For example incorrect use of electrolytes can cause fluid transport problems (even bloat) due to the effect on kidneys and in the worse case scenario if you overuse electrolytes like potassium, you can induce the heart to stop. Please don't use them in future.
Regards.
I guess you have already went ahead with the salt baths....
Ok this bit troubles me somewhat "I decided to change his water altogether and pull all the stops adding an electrolyte solution and some other healthy water balancing solutions to his water.".
1) Whatever treatments ie. salt baths are carried out in a separate tub or container and it shouldn't be performed in the main tank.
2) If you mean changing 100% of water in the container for fridging or salt baths, i would say that is fine. However if you refer to the main tank, i would advise on regular 20% water changes rather than an overhaul.
3) Why are you putting electrolye solutions and "water balancing solutions" in the water? You really shouldn't be tampering with chemical additives. If you are diligent and meticulous with your water chemistry testing and regular 20% water changes as well as siphoning detritus and uneaten food, there is no necessity to use 'water balancing solutions' such as pH up and down solutions. You want to solve any underlying problems, not mask a problem.
4) I am glad the bumps are resolving but i really advise you to use a conservative approach rather than jumping the gun and administer your own treatments. For example incorrect use of electrolytes can cause fluid transport problems (even bloat) due to the effect on kidneys and in the worse case scenario if you overuse electrolytes like potassium, you can induce the heart to stop. Please don't use them in future.
Regards.
ok thanks alot, the bumps are pretty much gone and as for the types of solutions i used it was only two, one is for nitrates and nitrites and one is for ph but both also have slime coat and biological balance properties meant to keep the water balance and maintain it. There was another chlorine remover I generally use for all my fish that also is enriched with alliton and keeps ammonia levels down. Is this too much? I bought these after alot of comparison with other solutions and the information I got from axolotl sites including this one. If I need to buy alternative solutions I'll do it right away just let me know! Thus far they seem to be working even though sometimes I won't use one or the other because they all basically do the same job from different angles but in this instance I used them all.
Darkmaverick
Site Contributor
Hi Savannah,
Dechlorinators are fine whenever you use them with water changes. Some of them also contain slimecoat, its is claimed to help regenerate the protective slime layer on the skin.
There is no necessity for the pH up and down solution nor the ammolock type solution. These would mask any underlying water chemistry problems/sources. If you are diligent and meticulous with regular water testing and 20% water changes, siphoning up detritus and uneaten food, the water quality will remain naturally much better.
Cheers.
Dechlorinators are fine whenever you use them with water changes. Some of them also contain slimecoat, its is claimed to help regenerate the protective slime layer on the skin.
There is no necessity for the pH up and down solution nor the ammolock type solution. These would mask any underlying water chemistry problems/sources. If you are diligent and meticulous with regular water testing and 20% water changes, siphoning up detritus and uneaten food, the water quality will remain naturally much better.
Cheers.