Why do my nitrates rise so quickly?

[LittleDragon]

We have been fighting high nitrates in our 20 gallon nonstop and don’t know how to remedy the issue. The tank is cycled. Ammonia and nitrites 0, PH a bit low at 6.6 but stable… we are having to do 25-50% water changes DAILY to keep nitrates from going off the charts. They read anywhere from 40 to 80ppm, change brings them down to 20-30 range for a day, then right back up. Fernie is not a heavy pooper as axolotls go and I remove poos as soon as I see them. No substrate, no food left in the tank. Quite a few plants for the size of the tank including a Pothos and a Crusia up top with roots in the water. No decaying plant material that I can see. I am testing with API liquid test kit, tested my tap and it is clear. It is pretty…well, draining…to do water changes every day like this!! We got a 40 gallon breeder recently and my boyfriend is building a stand for it, so hopefully we will have Fern moved into that soon, but could water volume really be the only issue here?

 

[MnGuy]

What's the filtration method?

Maybe there's not enough surface area to host beneficial bacteria? I've never gone bare-bottom, but maybe not having a substrate to host bacteria is a contributing factor? I keep my newts on sand with no issues.

Maybe it's unclean filter media? (Depending on what you use.)

 

[LittleDragon]

What's the filtration method?

Maybe there's not enough surface area to host beneficial bacteria? I've never gone bare-bottom, but maybe not having a substrate to host bacteria is a contributing factor? I keep my newts on sand with no issues.

Maybe it's unclean filter media? (Depending on what you use.)

I recently switched to a SunSun canister filter and just took out the HOB (wondered if the media in it was the culprit) after running it and the canister concurrently for about 6 weeks. There is a big hide and lots of big rocks in the tank, seems like plenty of surface area. I tried my hardest to keep a sand substrate, but every time I introduced the axolotl and he disturbed the sand, the ammonia would spike enough to crash my cycle. After three tries I gave up and went bare.

 

[wolfen]

make sure that the foam sponges in the filter are cleaned regularly in old tank water as they can get clogged quite easily and be producing nitrates even whilst the tank looks clean.
as with any substrate muck and gas can collect in sand so should be gone through with a fork etc... prior to a water change to remove any trapped debris etc.. which should reduce any chance of spiking due to digging.

 

[LittleDragon]

make sure that the foam sponges in the filter are cleaned regularly in old tank water as they can get clogged quite easily and be producing nitrates even whilst the tank looks clean.
as with any substrate muck and gas can collect in sand so should be gone through with a fork etc... prior to a water change to remove any trapped debris etc.. which should reduce any chance of spiking due to digging.

We no longer have substrate, as I said. I cleaned the sponge pre-filter on the canister filter this last weekend, next weekend I will have a look at the internal media, but the nitrate issue predates this filter. I am really at a loss and I’m sure daily 25-50% water changes aren't ideal for Fern either…

 

[wolfen]

the ph is very low which would make it difficult for bacteria to consume, which means there should be some signs of ammonia but because of the pothos they could be being consumed by the plant (apparently its easier to consume ammonia and nitrites than nitrates).
the nitrates are probably from the breakdown of debris in the filter itself.
by increasing the ph the filter bacteria should start reducing the ammonia and nitrites causing your plants to start consuming the nitrates.

 

[wolfen]

look up father fish on YouTube

Having a healthy fish tank is very easy and requires no water changes once you are educated properly. Everything online is incorrect.

very old school with some information applicable to axolotls ie.. sodium thiosulphate, live food being best, but a lot that isn't ie.. zero water changes, zero cycling.
may be worth while if starting fish hobby.

 

[wolfen]

the nitrogen cycle is only a myth if it isn't proven which it is, whether it be in the aquarium, a river, a field, even in waste water treatment, the nitrogen cycle is everywhere.
as to archaea that is just the main ammonia to nitrite oxidising micro-organism in freshwater AOA, for a intents and purposes it is s lot easier explaining that bacteria need to grow which feed on and break down waste then to confuse matters with AOA or AOB (ammonia oxidising archaea and ammonia oxidising bacteria) especially when NOB (nitrite oxidising bacteria) still have to be present.

 

[LittleDragon]

I’m sure it will be a delight to all to hear from me again that nothing has solved the issue thus far. I thought we might be getting somewhere after swishing the dirty filter media in both filters, pre filter, performing two 50-60% water changes, creating an ‘experiment tank’ with fresh dechlorinated water and air stone to determine my tap’s true PH (about 7.2) and quarantine individual items from Fern’s tank to see if there was a rogue nitrate source (nope) over the last several seeks. I managed two whole days at 10ppm nitrates….and tonight I have 0.5ppm ammonia, 0.5ppm nitrites, 40ppm nitrates (they were 10ppm 24hrs ago). PH was about 7.0-7.2…as far as the ammonia and nitrite spike, Fern hasn‘t pooped as far as I can tell and if he did, he ate it, so not sure the source of that. Attached some photos of his tank and filters (Excuse the lack of ‘pretty’, we are working on design and ordering plants and such for the new bigger tank he’s in). I am so…at a loss.

 

[wolfen]

because fecal matter can break up quite easily checking filter media would be the only way to find for sure if defecation has taken place.
check your moss ball for health (they have a habit of rotting from the inside out) this can be done by gently squeezing it and observing the waters discolouration.
if the nitrates are left at 40ppm without a water change do they rise to 70-80ppm after a further two days?
what water dechlorinater are you using?
your ammonia although higher than zero isn't too worrisome increasing ph will help, your ph is fluctuating and going low which is a slight concern use enough bicarbonate of soda to slowly increase the ph to 7.4-7.6, your nitrites are of major concern and if your axolotl hasn't been removed should be and given daily methyline blue baths.

 

[LittleDragon]

because fecal matter can break up quite easily checking filter media would be the only way to find for sure if defecation has taken place.
check your moss ball for health (they have a habit of rotting from the inside out) this can be done by gently squeezing it and observing the waters discolouration.
if the nitrates are left at 40ppm without a water change do they rise to 70-80ppm after a further two days?
what water dechlorinater are you using?
your ammonia although higher than zero isn't too worrisome increasing ph will help, your ph is fluctuating and going low which is a slight concern use enough bicarbonate of soda to slowly increase the ph to 7.4-7.6, your nitrites are of major concern and if your axolotl hasn't been removed should be and given daily methyline blue baths.

0.5 ppm Nitrites once warrants tubbing and methylene blue baths?? I use Seachem Prime, I added a double dose to the tank for safety, but Fern is behaving completely normally. I also dosed (and have been as needed) a small amount of baking soda to keep PH from falling. The moss ball is not a soft marimo ball, it is a hard ball with java moss growing on it. No rot noted.

 

[wolfen]

unlike ammonia which is caustic nitrites get into the blood stream and reduce the oxygen carried by the blood, chlorides have been found to offer some protection so using salt in the tank does help but because the effects of nitrites aren't visible maximum caution should be used, also axolotls maximum tolerance to nitrites is 0.5ppm.
methyline blue helps remove nitrites from the bloodstream and increase the level of oxygen in the blood and is used to treat nitrite and nitrate toxicoses.

 

[LittleDragon]

Wolfen you said max tolerance is 0.5. That is the highest it has gone and only for a day, so why would I assume my Axolotl is sick enough to warrant the stress of tubbing and chemical treatment? He’s eating, showing no signs of stress or illness, water changes are being done.

I get more frustrated coming here because no one else bothers to answer when wolfen does, and like I said in another thread, I get asked the same questions and given the same advice that didn’t work as though I haven't been here for months detailing every little thing I have and have not done and all that has and has not changed and I still have to repeat myself and get nowhere.

socalpawsandclaws, you just seem to be here to stir the pot.

 

[wolfen]

the problem with forums like this is that all we can do is try to help but at a distance (I live in the U.K. where as the majority of people posting are from the U.S.), the only information we receive is what ever is written down or photographed, sometimes the reply can be a knee jerk reaction and may seem an over reaction other times it may seem that it is going round in circles, this is very frustrating for both the owner and the person answering.
at the end of the day the person who knows your axolotl best and how your tank is set up is yourself, any answers given are up to the owner to take the advice or not, if I answer a question with its fine and then something happened then what would be the use of giving advise.
when it comes to nitrates they are the bane of anyone who has kept any type of aquatic animal at some point or other, myself included, unless you are making a full planted tank or fitting a nitrate reactor there isn't much that can be done apart from water changes, if you are doing regular water changes and your axolotls are happy then just carry on doing what you are doing.
look into using 50% holtfreters plus 0.1g/l magnesium sulphate, read here Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity