World's most golden popei

[TJ]

Truly a feast for the eyes

It'd be a crime against nature, a travesty of justice, an unforgivable breach of the newtkeepers code of ethics

NOT to breed this critter, which was being kept at a school in Okinawa. But since it seems this pic (from a Japanese website) was taken around 5 years ago...it sadly may no longer be with us.

 

[paul]

Hi Tim,
that's really a feast for my eyes!
On which page did you find it?
Paul

 

[TJ]

Hi Paul, I didn't post the link immediately as I didn't want to see a hoard of people descending on the school in question before I got a chance to photograph it myself

But I telephoned today and found that it's not kept there (and possibly never was -- just caught, photographed and released), so here's the link:

http://www2m.biglobe.ne.jp/~nishime/myhp/9page.htm

The words under the pics say it's a strange newt with a strange color all over, and jest that it could be a newt/goldfish half-breed

 

[jennifer]

It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the yellow color is the newt's background color, not light speckling. Seems like it must be a hypomelanistic, lacking most of the usual dark coloration. Interesting critter.

 

[philipp]

Hi
Bet you know that:
I´m not that sad, that nobody started playing "god" or something,
designing animals to make them interesting and expensive again,...
I personally think that those newts are beautiful enough, "even" when normal looking.
Hopefully remains mostly a minor hobby,...
Saw an adult albinotical Salamandra s. salamandra
some weeks ago.Ugly looking creature,...
Greets,
Philipp

 

[aaron]

Philipp, I agree that most of the very expensive animals are ugly as sin itself, not to mention that many of them are inbred to further "enhance" these genetic mutations. Glad to see another person with the same veiws.

Great pic Tim.

~Aaron

 

[philipp]

Thanks Aaron
Best personal pic!
Yes, "animal-designer" became a hobby,
that spreads like cancer.Inbreeding´s the biggest problem, cause without new combinations, doors to the weaker organism are that wide open, the more you go on,...
On the other hand, it´s very unnatural to concentrate breeding with colour morphs.
Just think about, how impossible it should be for two adult specimens, to meet and breed in their natural habitat.Think "normal" newts are beautiful enough,....
Nice to meet other "romantics", especially if they´re young and should normally believe, what some "profesionals" do and think,....
Greets,

 

[TJ]

Hey, to each his own...the less competition for the prettiest ones, the better

Pet keeping is itself "very unnatural" and people "play God" every time they are responsible for a newt being directly or indirectly removed from the wild and forced to live out its days in an artificial habitat at the whims of the fallible human keeping it.

I'm all in favor of "designer newts" as long as we're talking about newts with with nice coloration -- just like guppies, platies and other tropical fish are bred by dedicated hobbyists to bring out nice coloration in them -- rather than purposefully breeding deformities into them like some of the grotesque goldfish out there (or bulldogs and pugs in the case of dogs that suffer from respiratory problems as a result).

I, for one, think golden axoltls and "Claire" axoltls are a wonder to behold and I prefer them to the "wild" variety (though it's nice too). The one pictured above IS wild and would probably breed in the wild -- so why not in my home?

 

[TJ]

err....I meant "directly or indirectly responsible for", not "directly or indirectly removed from the wild"...

Jen, maybe it is hypomelanistic. It reminds me of that hypomelanistic Taricha, of which 8 pics were posted about a year ago on kingsnake.com. I searched their archives under "Taricha" and "melanistic" but they didn't show up so I can't provide a link for them. But I do have all the pics copied to my hard disk, so here's just a peek at a downsized version of one:

(Can anybody credit this pic for me and provide the proper link? The full-sized pics are well worth a look!)

 

[mark]

hi Tim,
i seen this picture to heres a link for it.
http://www.livingunderworld.org/gallery/photos/caudata/salamandridae/taricha/torosa/index.htm

Mark
PS.look near the bottom of the page for the picture

 

[TJ]

Thanks Mark! That's not the link I originally saw them posted at, but those are some of the pics (credited there to David Frischling, Jeff Fonda, and Sean Ramirez. I really think that's a beautiful creature. But then again, I'd probably feel right at home on The Island of Doctor Moreau

Still, I suppose brightly colored hypomelanisticss like the two above might not live long enough to propagate as they'd be more easily preyed upon in the wild.

 

[mark]

No problem Tim.
Glad to help.

Mark

 

[philipp]

Hi Tim
First, i have to wgree with you, talking about man´s role in pet keeping.But you can´t take this as an argument to praise creations like those poor Axolotl-mutations.Guess i´m a little bored by listening to "arguments" all the time, which should underline the needs of breeding colour morphs.Nearly everyone of them, didn´t touch me up to now, seemed to be more like turning them around, till nobody ask any further question.
Seems to be like Yellow-press argumentation, sometimes.You even said, that normally such animals become easy prey for predators, outside.
And of course, i heard of adult albinos and stuff,
found in ponds, forests or wherever,
but why are they always a kind of "sensation"?
Here in europe,
"white" crested newts are very "fashy", but wouldn´t it be better if more people would like to do something for a real rare species?
Why should i keep and breed animals, nature wouldn´t like to breed itself?
Sad that people like you propagate such opinions,...(not personal, but still serious;-))
Greets,
Philipp

 

[aaron]

I am all for keeping color morphs, but I am against the inbreeding of said animals in order to reproduce these traits(mutations). Especially when it becomes a financial venture, rather than the keeping of specimens for pets or hobby purposes.

~Aaron

 

[TJ]

Well, you won't see me cashing in on "Frankennewts" any time soon

Indeed, you won't see me selling any newts, period. But I think breeding for desired traits is more a labor of love (i.e. most people are not doing it for money). Say with guppies or bettas, and even with dogs and cats. Once the desired trait is achieved, well then there may be a demand for it, but I see nothing wrong with that -- as long as we're just talking enhanced coloration here and any new strain that emerges is not released into the wild. Anyway, not all mutations are negative or debilitating. Indeed, mutations increase genetic variability and play an important role in evolution. Then again, I don't really know...is hypomelanism in any way "bad" for a newt healthwise, other than making it more visible to predators? By the way, I said "Claire" axoltls up above when I meant "Chance" axoltls. And don't anybody here even THINK of discouraging Sara from breeding Chance

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/985/5617.html?1064690212



(Message edited by TJ on November 03, 2003)

 

[philipp]

Hypomelanistic animals do have more problems with skin problems, caused by natural lights.Even if Urodeles aren´t normally that active the day, there are exceptions.Of course, i do know that of captive animals.(Not my own, of course,...)
Aaaron:Keeping colour-morphs is right, breeding isn´t?They come from heaven, or what?
But i think you meant same, as i do:If there will ever be an albino or anything like this within my Cb´s, i´ll treat him like every other animal, maybe less light, but itself will never be sold or bred!The recssive genes would be in the population, of course, but by preventing inbreeding,
this won´t be that active,....
For me, that Axolotl Tim loves, is already a kind of Frankennewt,....
Greets,
Philipp

 

[aaron]

Philipp, I said "INbreeding." That is a big difference.

~Aaron

 

[philipp]

Hi Aaron
Though it doesn´t seem to do, i got you right.
Te only problem:For breeding colour morphs by not INbreeding(...;-)),
you have to have several, non-relative adults,
which have to meet and like each other.
And THAT´s the point, which isn´t that "natural"
Still got you wrong?
Then:killing all of my former english teacher!;-)
Greets,
Philipp

 

[aaron]

You basically have it correct.

You can do it without directly inbreeding them.

Albino x normal = 100% heterozygous
100% Babies x normal(unrelated to the first) = 25% het
25% Babies x normal = 12.5% het
6.25% Babies x Albino = some should end up albino

Then, breed the last babies back to the original albino. They will still be related, but if I remember correctly, there is sufficient genetic differentiation between 3 generations to breed together.

Of course, this is much quicker/easier if the original animal is a male, or if you have a few different albinos to start with.

~Aaron

(Message edited by Babamba on November 04, 2003)