Yellow parts on Paramesotriton larvae

T

timo

Guest
Dear caudate colleagues,

I was very fascinated by Paul’s successful P. laoensis breeding attempt. Especially that the larvae are all black without yellow parts.

I know that P. deloustali, P. caudopunctatus and P. hongkongensis have these yellow elements (tail-ridges, gills & around the eyes and nostrils/upper lip).

So my question is, does anybody know if the larvae of P. fuzhongensis, P. guangxiensis and P. chinensis have this coloration as well? Or even better, does anyone know a paper reporting the larval traits of any of these species?

Best wishes
Timo
 
From my experience P. fuzhongensis-larvae also possess the typical Paramesotriton - colouration.
 
I have raised P. caudopunctatus larvae - they also have the typical Paramesotriton yellow/black larvae.
 
Hi Paul.

The caption in Japanese says that the P. chinensis larva has two sets of lines consisting of yellow dots on each side of its body. This can easily be seen if you copy the photo, enlarge it and then enhance it. I can't post that enhanced photo here without permission but I've e-mailed it to you (and to you too Ralf & Jen...but sorry Timo, I don't have your email address). The caption for the photo of the morphs points out that yellow dots can be seen at the junction where the leg meets the body -- something that distinguishes this species from other Paramesotriton. I can see them...can you?
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(Message edited by tj on March 09, 2007)
 
Hi Tim and Paul,

there are definitely yellow dots on upper side of the morph's forelegs!!! I can see them, too
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As far as I know it's not mentioned in the literature ?!!?!
I've also enlarged the photo of the larvae and I see two lateral rows of yellow dots! The upper one nearly at the same place, as the dorsolateral ridges of adult Paramesotriton. That's interesting, because chinensis' ridges aren't very prominent. Perhaps the yellow lines are a larval feature.

Anyone there who knows about P. fuzhongensis larvae?

Thanks a lot so far!

@Tim: the document about Amphibians of Hongkong is nearly an exact copy of Myers and Leviton ('62)
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Hi Timo!
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Timo Hartmann on Friday 09 March 2007 - 19:34 (#POST123958):</font>

Anyone there who knows about P. fuzhongensis larvae? <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Read the second post! Ralf already wrote
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Paul
 
Timo, what is the final summary? If I am reading correctly... all Paramesotriton larvae have "typical" coloration (black with yellow gills/noses), except chinensis and laoensis. Did I miss anything?
 
@Jennifer, my result is - all Paramesotriton (from which we know it) have yellow parts on its body, except laoensis.
But chinensis did not have yellow gills/noses!

Paul
 
Hi Jennifer,

as far as I see you've not missed anything. But I'm still not absolutely sure about chinensis, because the picture is very bad.

Conclusion: I think Paul is right. Laoensis is the big exception! It's all black larvae are another hint for its special position in the genus.

Timo
 
Hi Tim,

thanks for the enlarged photo. But I'm still not sure if it's really that much useful. Because I can't say if the distal gill-elements are yellow, brown or just a little bit brighter than the rest.
BUT: As far as I see this larva doesn't fit the description which is given in Paul's linked pdf-doc anyway. Because it's definitely not uniform black (the already mentioned lateral yellow rows).

So the question is, who is wrong? Jessica J. Miller or Dr. Grumman? Or is there some kind of variation in chinensis larvae?!

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I really don't know...

Timo
 
Hi Timo,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Timo Hartmann on Tuesday 13 March 2007 - 08:54 (#POST124352):</font>

So the question is, who is wrong? Jessica J. Miller or Dr. Grumman? Or is there some kind of variation in chinensis larvae?! <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
and the next question - What is chinensis?
One species, a lot of subspecies or different species?
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Paul
 
I've since received from Dr. Grumman the original photo, which when enhanced looks like this:

80135.jpg


80136.jpg
 
Hi Tim,

with this photo, there is no doubt that it has two sets of lines consisting of yellow dots on each side
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And it seems, that it also has yellow parts around its tail.

Paul
 
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