Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

[michael]

It's an axolotl.

 

[xxianxx]

Mom
I was guessing based on head shape, but you are right in that it is entirely possible that it is pure andersoni.

Not a chance of this animal being A.andersoni.

 

[Coastal Groovin]

I love all the wild guessing. No one will ever know unless you cut off a leg and send it out for DNA testing. It is more than likely just a "mutant" axolotl.

 

[Azhael]

"you are all just guessing, but my guess is the better guess".

It may well be just an axolotl...it may also be a hybrid...
Actually, even if it doesn't have a drop of andersonii in it, it's still most likely a hybrid...
If hybrids are highly variable, which of course they are, then this animal looking more andersoni than some other hybrids, is....one data point for it possibly being a hybrid
There are three things we know for sure. One is that it is definitely not an A.andersonii. The second is that domestic axolotl/andersonii hybrids exist. The other is that this animal is of unknown genetics.

 

[xxianxx]

"you are all just guessing, but my guess is the better guess".

It may well be just an axolotl...it may also be a hybrid...
Actually, even if it doesn't have a drop of andersonii in it, it's still most likely a hybrid...
If hybrids are highly variable, which of course they are, then this animal looking more andersoni than some other hybrids, is....one data point for it possibly being a hybrid

I was pretty clear than any assumption of what this animal is is purely guess work. Actual experience of raising A.andersoni/A.mexicanum hybrids would give my "guess" a tad more validity than somebody with no experience. I am in possession of a hybrid and a hybrid/A.mexicanum ( the result of a friends hybrid breeding with an axolotl, I received all the eggs , culled all but three another friend had the others for study) even a hybrid with 25% A.andersoni is visibly not an axolotl, I can't actuall tie the reason down , its just not "right" visibly. The animal which the op posted does not trigger that response.
If this animal was a hybrid wouldn't it look more like a hybrid rather than A.andersoni ?As costal grooving already pointed out, without DNA evidence its impossible to say, the appearance of this animal is unusual but that's no proof one way or the other.

 

[Azhael]

I agree, we are all guessing, i just find it funny that some people point that out, and inmediately after claim their guess is obviously the better guess.
The reason why i commented on that bit from your post, Ian, is because i found it odd that you would say that this animal had to be an axolotl because it looked more like andersonii than some hybrids did...That struck me as...peculiar.
The thing with hybrids is that as it's already been said, they are highly variable, and different hybrid individuals may look significantly different from one another, let alone different hybrid bloodlines!
Unless the pedigree of that animal can be tracked down, or someone does a genetic analysis, the only reasonable option is to consider this animal "unknown". I can't back my guess with anything other than "to me it looks like it" and the people claiming axolotl can't back theirs either with anything but the same.
Since this animal has also had a bumpy start, as the OP tells us, the tail proportions, toes, etc, are not reliable as it is clearly an animal with an unusual bodyshape as a consequence of its past.
Just to be clear, i'm not making a positive claim that it is a hybrid...but it bothers me that people are quick to sentence that animal as just an axolotl, because it's guess work, and it's dangerous guesswork, because if it is treated like an axolotl, and bred with axolotls, but it turns out to not be an axolotl...that's how genetic introgressions are spread. I think the responsible thing is to consider the animal as "unknown" and keep it separate. I know plenty of people wouldn't...they would just go with their guess and treat it as an axolotl, because the only thing that matters is that it is an unusual colorations and it must be selected for....

 

[michael]

it is:

A tempest in a teapot.

A mountain out of a molehill.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[vanjaif]

Thank you all for the "wild guessing" :happy: I guess I just have to come to peace with the fact that I will never knowing for sure what species she is. On the bright side I only have females and are not planing to breed. roud:

 

[Hollystark]

I have a het for copper girl who didn't have a great life before I got her. She laid eggs so she's at least mostly mature. She's only like 6 inches long, her gills are short and funky looking, and she has very large iridephors, widely spaced like yours. I've read that copper 'lotls tend to be shorter generally so maybe she's got since copper in her?

 

[Azhael]

Thank you all for the "wild guessing" :happy: I guess I just have to come to peace with the fact that I will never knowing for sure what species she is. On the bright side I only have females and are not planing to breed. roud:

I am personally glad to hear that. Enjoy your beautiful animal!

 

[kettering bloke]

Hi Just a thought but I have read that some tiger salamander DNA is in the mix as to produce some colour forms the right gene combination was not found in captive axie stock. (Grosse Threatened Newts and salamanders in the bit on axis) If after several generations you have some throw backs with unusual looks is that really a supprise (Like kids you love them for what they are not what others would hope they be) regards KB

 

[xxianxx]

Not a chance of this animal being A.andersoni.

Apparently this statement is "ignorant and rude", the animal in question is NOT A.andersoni because it has no backfoot webbing, the wrong colouration/pattern and wrong body shape. I suggest who ever gave me bad rep for this statement of fact should educate themselves before passing comment.....

 

[Chinadog]

Apparently this statement is "ignorant and rude", the animal in question is NOT A.andersoni because it has no backfoot webbing, the wrong colouration/pattern and wrong body shape. I suggest who ever gave me bad rep for this statement of fact should educate themselves before passing comment.....

That sucks. This kind of thing is the reason I don't post much in the Axolotl forum. There are some members who seem to have lost all sense of reality. If they would just engage their brain before pressing submit, it would be a much nicer place round here.

 

[michael]

Apparently this statement is "ignorant and rude", the animal in question is NOT A.andersoni because it has no backfoot webbing, the wrong colouration/pattern and wrong body shape. I suggest who ever gave me bad rep for this statement of fact should educate themselves before passing comment.....

It looks like you have not lost to much reputation over it. The forum is dumbing down a little.

Their is still a lot of good stuff on here and it is not as transient as Facebook.

 

[Azhael]

I can't count the number of times i've been given bad rep. for a factual comment that someone apparently didn't like. Don't make too much of it, it's usually done by newbies members with little or no rep. power so it's not going to do much, plus if they are wrong to abuse the rep. system, who cares, what matters is that you put out correct information and that gets you good rep. anyway.

 

[herpguy]

It is wishful thinking to think that this is anything more exotic than a pretty axolotl.

 

[Coastal Groovin]

Reputation on here can be joke sometimes. There are some axolotl breeders on here that think they know everything and are salamander Gods. Breeding axolotls is as impressive as breeding rabbits. You really have to look at who is giving out negative reputation. I only listen to people that have bred 6 or more species. I really hope you reconsider you decision not to breed her. I believe she is just as oddball axolotl with an excessive amount of iridophores. I would love to see if she would pass this down to any of her offspring. I know this is a long shot but I hope you will give it a chance with a future spawning.

 

[Chinadog]

I believe she is just as oddball axolotl with an excessive amount of iridophores. I would love to see if she would pass this down to any of her offspring. I know this is a long shot but I hope you will give it a chance with a future spawning.

I'd have to agree. On the grand scale of things another strain of captive Axolotls can't do any harm, it is a lovely animal when all's said and done.

 

[Azhael]

In the grand scheme of things who cares if a species of salamander goes extinct. In the grand scheme of things who cares if the cow my burguer was made from suffered before it was sacrified...
The answer to that should be "i do". The damage might seem small and insignificant but that doesn't mean it's not there...
It is wishful thinking to think that you can know the genetics of that animal just from a superficial look at it...
It may be just a domestic axolotl (whatever that means genetically speaking), but don't pretend like you know this.

 

[Chinadog]

You're right, I don't know it, but I have seen that colour before. When I used to breed and sell Axolotls, I gave some larvae to a teacher friend of mine. They were put into a huge aquarium in her class and pretty much forgotten about until months later. The three survivors that had fed themselves for all that time were the same colour as the one in this thread. They had big fluffy, red gills as well, but that's directly a result of the pond type tank where they lived, I think?

Edit; I was hoping not to get drawn in by this thread and I nearly succeeded, but here we are down the rabbit hole! XD