Axie got "chewed up" big time, possible broken bone

[newtsrfun]

My 2 year olds made some huge mistake, and apparently took on one of their own, and for the first time, it was a rather huge attack, the worst I have ever seen. The poor guy had his foot mangled, and a rather large section of tail was ripped off. Normall I have seen the tail get munched, but never an arm and a tail, and never this bad.

I am not sure if the arm is broken, he won't use it, and it does not appear to be a compound fracture, no bone is visible. He may just not want to use it from tissue damage. The tail looks bad, but the the animal is in good health otherwise, so I assume as long as there is no infection, that will heal fine.

The arm, I am worried about. Who has had expierance with an actual broken bone? I have had numerous larvea bite limbs off before, and one or 2 times I had to amputate a limb that was beyond saving, and I have had a 100% success rate with all those procedures. however, I do not want to have to do that with an adult.

Any advice would be helpful, aside from salt baths and whatnot.

Thanks

 

[g_k]

i would seperate him from the others. stress wont help at all. looks really nasty though and i would consider getting a seperate tank for him to stop further attacks.

 

[Kaysie]

Jeff, the arm doesn't appear broken. The angle doesn't seem to be different from a 'healthy' limb. I would leave it to heal and see if he uses it after it heals. Other than that, you know the routine: keep 'em cool and out of stress.

 

[newtsrfun]

thanks guys. I am keeping my eye on him. I don't really want to move the axie, I don't have a tank for him at the moment, and the others have been well fed and i watched them come right up, and eat worms from under the injured one without bothering him, even though he now spends most of his time up near the top, in the plants. I hope that by thursday, there will be a noticeable change if healing is going on at the right pace, if not, I will take some more steps.

 

[newtsrfun]

Well, I am less optimistic today. More tissue is gone, and the finger bones are fully exposed. This seems like something that will not heal up in any relative speed. I want the wound closed, I think I am going to take the arm and close it with super glue. Anyone have any other advice, I would love to hear it.

 

[naymo]

Ew dont close it with superglue.

Thats cruel..and it would muck up with the regeneration when your axies starts to heal.

 

[newtsrfun]

Im not so sure it would hinder the process of healing, In fact, it would probably come off rather quickly as the tissue came off during healing, but I need to figure out if this is true. I don't want him to lose blood, I am dropping the temp down to slow his heart rate.

I also picked up some melafix, which might help. So far, I haven't done anything else yet, I am trying to get a good second opinion before I continue.

 

[Bellabelloo]

I am pretty sure super glue is a bad idea, axolotl are very sensitive to various chemicals and super glue is full of them, apart from that its the logistics would be a problem..ie how to dry and it would seriously stress you pet out. I would suggest it be put in the fridge which will help aid healing and salt baths to help stop infections ..all the best with your pet

 

[naymo]

Yes i reckon Bellabello. Why would you want to put superglue on your pet.
You wouldnt put it on your dogs open wound, or ya mouses, or cats or ya damn donkey's.
So why would you subject your axololt to that.You couldnt possibly imagine how many chemicals are in it let alone how sore it would be peeling off when the axie starts to regenerate is lost bits.

 

[newtsrfun]

Well, as it turns out, I didn't need it- However here is the part where I dissagree about the use of superglue and here is why:

It does contain chemicals, that is correct, but they don't neccesarly go into the bloodstream. Allthough I have no evidence to back that up right now, I do know that the skin being wet is not a major concern, and it makes the glue bond to the outer surface very fast, and not quite as strong, which would be perfect for keeping blood from draining out, which in this case didn't happen, but would be much more deadly then the glue on the outside. And you wouldn't peel it off either, it would fall of as the skin underneath formed and replaced the outer skin layer.

And I would not hesitiate to use super glue to close up a bad cut on me or my cat, and it is quite common in hard and soft coral propagation, which are very sesitive to everything(even slight changes in salinity).

 

[naymo]

Thats cruel..very cruel..See you cant even justify that it wouldnt be harmful to him/her.

Sure you would use superglue on your cuts and abrasions.....Go ahead..
But how dare you subject that to an animal. Thats not nice

 

[Bellabelloo]

I Know that super glue is used certainly on humans ( well my son cut his head open and that was glued at the hospital rather than stitched- less truamatic for the child) its just as I said earlier the axolotl skin is very sensitive and I am unsure what damage the glue may do, or not do. The forum is here to discuss /share/ and learn imformation from one another on how to do our best for our animals super gluing a wound may be possible but until I hear other wise I personally wouldn't do it. Since I have accessed this site I have learnt many many things ( using tea to help treat fungus yesterday!) one that strikes me most is just how tough these little guys can be..loosing limbs and bouncing back with a new one is rather impressive.. anyway enough of my ramblings. I hope your little guy is now on the road to recovery...so far I have been lucky with my two, but I am learning from you what to do should my two fall out. All the best

 

[naymo]

Well bellabello..that dude cut the leg off himself.
He cut it off!
Without taking to the vet or listening to the good advice of kapo and kaysie who i consider very experienced and I respect them greatly.

How do i know this..
he posted it in the new & salamander forum

And at least the hospital stuff if most likely medical glue so its free from toxins and chemicals etc.

 

[Kaysie]

I support Jeff's actions. Jeff's been around a long time, and he knows what he's doing. I've used superglue on myself at least twice. It's handy, and a lot less traumatic than giving myself stitches.

If Jeff decided amputation was the best course of action, and he did what he could to keep a sterile field, then that's just what a vet would do. Amputation is an acceptable form of proactive therapy (in some cases). Think about in the wild, if a leg was removed, it surely wasn't with a clean knife and then bathed in healing solutions.

 

[Ed]

Superglue or (methyl or ethyl ester) cyanoacrylate resin is an accepted method to bond tissues together that cannot be sown together (which is why it is often used in scalp wounds). The hardening of the glue is triggered by exposure to moisture resulting in the polymerization which is very rapid and what makes it safe to use....

I would not typically recommend its use in amphibians as under stress they tend to increase thier skin mucousal secretions and this could significantly inhibit the ability of the glue to adhere as the mucous would need to be wiped off before the glue would efficiently stick.

Keeping it cool to reduce the blood pressure on the wound is a good idea. You can also add some salt (at a tablespoon/ 5 gallons) to help inhibit fungal infection.

Ed

 

[Bellabelloo]

Thanks Kaysie and Ed, I was inclined to trust his judgement...having read the threads through I appreciate he is doing all he can to help his pet, rather than intentionally harm it.

 

[ianclick]

Indeed,

Cyanoacrylate methyl or ethyl ester is used in hospitals world wide as a method of wound closure and is much less stressful and messy for the patient than stapling or stitching.

I dont think that Jeff was being cruel Naymo, but I do understand your passion for axies.

I used to get heaps from my wife before she passed for stitching up my hunting dogs myself, bearing in mind that they are working dogs not house pets, but Loved madly none the less.

I never tried super glue but mainly because these injuries occur in the bush with no way to trim away the hair. Otherwise I would have glady glued them if it would have stopped the bleeding and closed the wound.

It may be a little bit bush but I wouldn't consider myself a cruel person.

 

[newtsrfun]

I was putting some salt in his hospitial setup, but I am having one heck of a time trying to do these conversions. Ed reccomends 1 tablespoon for 5 gallons. there is 3 teaspoons in one tablespoon, and 3.8 liters(1.5 liters is about the volume of the water in his setup) per gallon. so exactly .6 teaspoons for 1 gallon. Then it gets pretty tricky, with the smaller volume, but I figure 1/4 teaspoon should be ok for the 1.5 liters.

Typical salt bath solutions are somthing between one teaspoon per liter and up, depending on time, but since he is going to be in the weak solution most of the day that Ed suggests, I didn't want to put too much in. I hope I figured this out right. There is a stronger solution I put him in for 20 minutes 2 times a day, which is the same temp (60f).

 

[Bellabelloo]

Hows your patiant doing today?

 

[Ed]

Hi Jeff,

Keeping him in the weaker salt solution shouldn't cause any issues with his ability to osmoregulate so there shouldn't be any issues with the other salt baths. (its only a little less hypotonic than regular water).

If you are concerned about getting the dilution right, you can make up a larger quantity in a bucket. As long as its kept out of the light and stirred before use, it will work fine (when I make Amphibian Ringer's Solution at work I make 5 gallons at a time and it lasts for more than a year as long as I keep it out of the light (prevents algae growth).

Ed