Does all the water have to go if an axolotl has a fungal infection?

[HitmanSougo13]

Hi guys, I can't remember what the answer was, I'm pretty positive my axolotl has a fungal infection on one of his gills. I had worked so hard in the full half of a year to cycle my water with axolotl in. It's finally cycled but now I noticed he has an infection. It has been growing for the last 2 days and I have tried to rub the area to see if it was just something caught on his gills.

So in the event of treatment, after giving an axolotl a salt bath, do I have to dump out all the water in my tank and clean every little thing like the filter and the pebbles? Thank you for answer! I haven't done the salt bath yet as I don't have any sea salt at home so I'll have to do the bath tomorrow.

 

[Yaimfat]

Hi, it depends on the extent of the infection but for 100% results do the full water change. If it is only a small infection with little furriness and this is immediate treatment all should be fine, after all fungus is capable of growing in almost any water. If, however, you have been monitoring it for a little while and are now concerned enough to begin treatment as it has worsened it may be best to do the complete water change, though I'm not sure a full clean is necessary. And cycling is far quicker if the axie is not in the tank, depending on the tank size.

 

[Jennewt]

I would not recommend cleaning out the tank, particularly the surfaces inside the tank. How much water you should change depends on the test results for the water. And whether there is any other reason for concern about the water, such as excessive crud or uneaten food debris.

 

[Yaimfat]

I agree with jennewt however in my experience with fungus bits can rub off and float in the water if the infection is bad enough so I would still say a full change might be necessary, or perhaps a 50% change with very extensive siphoning, just to make sure.

 

[FRANCOIS]

I would not do a full water change, Jen is right. I would try to provide a clean environment (partial H2O change) and get those antibiotics for fish that dissolve in the water. Get both antibiotics for gram + and gram - infections and if it does not work then you either did not follow the instructions or your axolotl has a serious problem. I am confident It will work... best of luck!

 

[Yaimfat]

Those dissolvable antibiotics for fish that are also broad spectrum, general purpose such as tetracycline are high-grade skin irritants, as are most fish medications to axolotls and other amphibians. There are a couple that are ok but most aren't, I just forget the names of the good ones. And like I said, if you are looking for no chances, 100% results do the water change, otherwise a sizable water change is perfectly fine.

 

[FRANCOIS]

Those dissolvable antibiotics for fish that are also broad spectrum, general purpose such as tetracycline are high-grade skin irritants, as are most fish medications to axolotls and other amphibians. There are a couple that are ok but most aren't, I just forget the names of the good ones. And like I said, if you are looking for no chances, 100% results do the water change, otherwise a sizable water change is perfectly fine.

Are you sure? I have saved fish that way that are super sensitive to chemicals etc... and very fragile. (Baby whale etc...) anyway I will not debate this issue too much. If those antibiotics are skin irritant, reduce the dosage but if an axolotl could talk I bet he would say a fungus on his gills does not feel well either....

 

[Yaimfat]

Yes they are very irritating and yes, while the fungus is also unpleasant why put it through greater stress? Also the slime coat damage can cause other problems and excess stress. Also, correct me if I'm mistaken but aren't those kind of antibacterial treatments ineffective against fungus??

 

[Ken Worthington]

A difference between medications that are beneficial for fish but should be used with caution with axies are those with things like malachite green, copper salts, and several other things (that hopefully someone with far greater knowledge will address)
I'd treat the animal seperately for a while but consider the impotance of maintaining a healthy eco-system in your tank, without doing drastic water-changes first, hopefully once the salt-baths have done their trick, then he can be reintroduced.
Quote Jake "Also, correct me if I'm mistaken but aren't those kind of antibacterial treatments ineffective against fungus?? "
Antibacterials are designed to combat bacterial infection, as fungicides would be to fungal growth.
Can you provide pictures please?
Happy new year to you and your axie

 

[Yaimfat]

Is it just me or is no-one concerned about possible floating fungus? Or is this is an overthought concern? I know I saw some floating fungus when mine had a problem...

 

[FRANCOIS]

There are different kinds of fungus.... "true fungus" and the rest.... I recommended antibiotics (both kinds listed above) because when in doubt, I brought back animals to health.... the more you hesitate sometimes, the worse gets the animal. Sometimes days are counted... you don't have the luxury to wait forever. There are pathogenes in any tank... just like in the air. A healthy animal has a properly functioning immune system and will not get sick, not true for a sick one. Do not do a full water change, I believe Jen said that above, she is quite the reference on this blog and if she says so, I buy it cause when unsure she does not advise on what to do and does it very cautiously.

 

[FRANCOIS]

A difference between medications that are beneficial for fish but should be used with caution with axies are those with things like malachite green, copper salts, and several other things (that hopefully someone with far greater knowledge will address)
I'd treat the animal seperately for a while but consider the impotance of maintaining a healthy eco-system in your tank, without doing drastic water-changes first, hopefully once the salt-baths have done their trick, then he can be reintroduced.
Quote Jake "Also, correct me if I'm mistaken but aren't those kind of antibacterial treatments ineffective against fungus?? "
Antibacterials are designed to combat bacterial infection, as fungicides would be to fungal growth.
Can you provide pictures please?
Happy new year to you and your axie

I agree 100% with Ken.

 

[Yaimfat]

Well it's good to learn these things, though it makes me unsure ad to what I researched when I researched fungus'. What is a true fungus?

 

[FRANCOIS]

True fungus is real fungus... requires fungus treatment. BUT, sometimes what we call "fungus" or looks like it, is actually a bacterial infection... and an anti-fungus will not work. Makes sense?

 

[FRANCOIS]

Well it's good to learn these things, though it makes me unsure ad to what I researched when I researched fungus'. What is a true fungus?

and by the way True Fungus is very likely the consequence of bad water quality in the tank....

 

[Yaimfat]

Then what did my axie have when she had white, fluffy gills? Because that floated around the tank. And as far as creating a safe environment isn't bombing a tank with fungicide and not doing a water change dangerous? Otherwise why do we use salt baths? And if it's dangerous to bomb the tank than surely the floating fungus can survive for some time without a host.

You all have me confused honestly, if fungicides are safe what's with salt baths and if they are not why are they being recommended here? Also if we are in fact talking about fungicides then why did you earlier reccomend antibiotics fitting the description of things like tetracycline which can only be removed via water changes and is highly irritating?

Also if I'm not mistaken no one else has recommended this chemical solution and believe it to be a terrible idea given my own prior, ignorant experiences. And are there really bacterial infections that show up just like fungus? I did not read that when I researched fungus... If there are other infections with the same visible symptoms surely they would be commonly known, as well as 'true fungus'...

 

[morphyrichards]

"Fungus" seems to be a very hot topic at the moment. Unless I'm mistaken, by far the most common observed cause of the white cotton wool fluff 'fungus' is columnaris. Which is actually a symptom of a bacterial infection.

The bacteria is present in almost all aquaria, healthy or otherwise, and no amount of water changes will remove it. If an axolotl comes down with it it is because some conditions in the tank,which could be water quality ... decomposing matter somewhere ... diet ... tank size etc. etc. ad infinitum ... have weakened the axolotls immune system and allowed the 'fungus' actually bacteria, to gain an upper hand.

Any kind of treatment, be it salt bath or fish med, is only treating the secondary, visible symptom. The underlying issue, whatever poor quality factor in the tank which caused the infection in the first place, is what needs to be treated.

 

[Yaimfat]

I understand the idea of pathogens and immune systems very well, it was the part about the bacteria that caught me. If columnaris is representative of a bacterial infection then how will salt baths help? Bacteria within the axolotl could easily withstand such an assault.

I know that the fungus is constant, just like ich, it will always be a possible factor, as I stated earlier, I just believed the floating fungus pieces were in a sense a floating version of 'the infection' however if it is actually caused by a virus this all changes, though a fungus is usually a self surviving organism. Is this what you meant by true fungus francois? As in the difference between the common columnaris and a truly self propagating fungus?

Also my confusion, as stated earlier, was primarily toward the posts made by francois and the fungicide issue, the bacterial interactions of fungus being secondary.

 

[FRANCOIS]

I understand the idea of pathogens and immune systems very well, it was the part about the bacteria that caught me. If columnaris is representative of a bacterial infection then how will salt baths help? Bacteria within the axolotl could easily withstand such an assault.

I know that the fungus is constant, just like ich, it will always be a possible factor, as I stated earlier, I just believed the floating fungus pieces were in a sense a floating version of 'the infection' however if it is actually caused by a virus this all changes, though a fungus is usually a self surviving organism. Is this what you meant by true fungus francois? As in the difference between the common columnaris and a truly self propagating fungus?

Also my confusion, as stated earlier, was primarily toward the posts made by francois and the fungicide issue, the bacterial interactions of fungus being secondary.

"The two main types of fungus in aquarium, we class them into "True Fungus" and "False Fungus"" Google it, I don't see what is confusing about what I posted....

 

[FRANCOIS]

Any kind of treatment, be it salt bath or fish med, is only treating the secondary, visible symptom. The underlying issue, whatever poor quality factor in the tank which caused the infection in the first place, is what needs to be treated.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely !!!