EVEN more captive plethodontid breedings...

taherman

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Also, there have been some recent publications on the oviposition of both E. lucifuga and P. ruber in caves that I can send along to you if you don't already have them.

Hi Kevin,
I've got Ringia and Lips 2007, and Miller et al. 2008. Got any others?

I'd be happy to share notes, have you seen many wild eggs? I'm hoping to have some longicauda eggs in the spring, so keep your finger's crossed!

Trauth had up to 120 eggs per female in ovarian counts, so I'm not totally convinced it was more than one female. There's at least two more loaded with eggs in there now, so we might get more in the coming weeks (not that I really need 200 cave salamanders....) :)

-Tim
 

jaster

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This is some great work! I am jealous. Congratulations.

Have Pseudotriton ruber eggs been found in the wild? Maybe your breeding will help give some idea on what they do...
 

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That is so exciting. what a wonderful adventure
 

froggy

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This is fantastic news. You and Toledo are doing such good work for amphibian conservation!

KevinS - if you have anything interesting about Eurycea oviposition and breeding to discuss with Tim, please share it with the forum!!! What is your thesis on, exactly?

Again, great work

Chris
 

KevinS

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KevinS - if you have anything interesting about Eurycea oviposition and breeding to discuss with Tim, please share it with the forum!!! What is your thesis on, exactly?

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I don't want to share with the group, but I tend to ramble on when I'm on this subject and didn't want to monopolize the thread with lengthy messages that might distract from Tim's original post. My thesis work was on cave-associated populations of Eurycea longicauda, though I took data on other species I encountered including P. ruber and E. lucifuga. I I put a link to it in the Conservation and Habitat Management forum on here. The thesis was rushed and didn't come out nearly as thorough as I would have liked, but I'm in the process of going back through the raw data to try and publish some of my findings so hopefully I'll have more to contribute from it in the future.

Anyway, a quick summary of my message to Tim would be:

1. I know of several references to lucifuga eggs, but none with such a numerous count from a single female. If all of his eggs are from one female, I'm fairly surprised though it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

2. I've found larvae of lucifuga and longicauda in scenarios that suggest eggs were deposited in crevices and larvae were washed down into pools by infiltrating rain or snowmelt though I haven't personally found the eggs of either species.

3. I currently have some larvae of the aforementioned species that are taking a long time to metamorphose. I think at room temperature their metabolisms are so fast that my feeding frequency (about 2x per week) isn't generating growth as rapidly as I'd like.

That's the main jist of it without bogging you down with all the minor details.
 

froggy

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Kevin

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so accusatory! I just meant that if there were anything particularly interesting that you had worked on, and were telling Tim about, you might as well post it here (or a new thread) rather than using PMs.

The thesis looks interesting! I am trying to find a PhD working with amphibians at the moment.

Chris
 

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Any updates Tim? I figured you'd have some larvae swimming around by now.
 

taherman

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Sorry, there are updates but I haven't gotten around to posting them. The E. lucifuga eggs have been VERY fertile, only lost a couple out of the roughly 60 I pulled from the tank of adults. They started hatching around Christmas, and are still hatching due to the variety of temperatures I kept them at.

The P. ruber have not fared as well. I left most with the female as she was tending/defending them with fervor, but perhaps due to a precipitous drop in the incoming tap water temperature none of those eggs developed. Of the roughly 30 I pulled out about half are still good. Their development is much slower than lucifuga, so keep your fingers crossed.

I'll post more photos in the coming week or so.
-Tim
 

KevinS

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Glad to hear the lucifuga are doing so well. Hopefully the remaining ruber eggs will pull through for you.
 

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It's a very interesting thread. Perhaps you could post us any news about the larvae, Tim?
 

taherman

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Sorry for the long delay. Very busy life right now...

Here's a couple shots of the first batch of 10 lucifuga morphing out around 23 Jun 2010 at around 5-6cm TL. They were split into two groups kept under quite different conditions. The rest are just starting to morph out now, at a slightly smaller size. I don't think any of the larvae which successfully hatched have died. We have sent out some lucifuga to other zoos. The first batch which morphed early have colored up a lot since the photos were taken, and look like gorgeous little perfect orange cave salamanders.

The P. ruber are doing just fine also, growing pretty well and eating voraciously. They are about 4-5cm now, but have quite a long ways to go before metamorphosis. I don't have any recent photos of them, but I need to take some.

-Tim
 

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John

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Tim, very nice indeed. I'm going to have to pay you a visit in the next couple of weeks :), being neighbours now. What do you do with all of the offspring? Do they go into the AZA system?
 

taherman

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Tim, very nice indeed. I'm going to have to pay you a visit in the next couple of weeks :), being neighbours now. What do you do with all of the offspring? Do they go into the AZA system?

Yes, they'll be distributed among AZA accredited zoos.
 

John

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Yes, they'll be distributed among AZA accredited zoos.
I hope there are more folks at AZA institutions who are good with salamanders than I think there are...
 

taherman

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Just to update, all E. lucifuga larvae have morphed and are doing great. Last year's P. ruber larvae are doing well, probably up to around 7-8cm TL.

Today I discovered the same female P. ruber laying eggs again in the same location, just shy of one year later. After lessons learned last year we should have quite a few more larvae again in January.

-Tim
 

Azhael

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I had missed those eurycea pictures! Brilliant little fellas!! I´m in love.

Congrats for that ruber breeding, you certainly have a knack for plethodontids!
 

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Congratulations Tim. That's wonderful news. I need to send you some photos...
 

froggy

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Congratulations - some major breakthroughs here.

C
 
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