Kaiser's Spotted Newt - On BBC

[Chris Newman]

Dear all,

This is my first post on this forum. I posted this on a UK forum and it was suggested that I should re post it here [see below]. I hope that it might be of some interest?

Regards,
Chris


If anyone is interested the plight of the world’s rarest newt Kaiser's Spotted Newt, Neurergus kaiseri, which is endemic to Iran is going to be featured on BBC Persian Television on I think the 4th of October. I was contacted by the BBC last week to ask if I would give an interview why I opposed the listing of N. kaiseri on Appendix I at the fifteenth meeting of the Conference of the Parties Doha (Qatar), March 2010. Previously N. kaiseri was not on CITES, by moving the species straight to Appendix I my argument was it would have a huge impact on captive breeding programmes taking place outside of Iran. My argument was to list N. kaiseri Appendix II with a negative export quota, thus preventing trade in wild species but not impact captive breeding programmes. Unfortunately our recommendations were rejected and the newt was placed on Appendix I with catastrophic effect on captive breeding programmes. The program is as I understand it going to look at the negative impact of the CITES I listing and how it has accelerated the decline of the species by encouraging illegal trade in wild specimens. If anyone has an interest in this species it might be worth watching!

 

[mr cyclone]

Hi buddy what channel is this?? i have freeview and what time is it on?

 

[FrogEyes]

Good to see you Chris! Still working with fires?

I'll have to try to watch it when it's available.

It's my impression that the wild trade has dropped dramatically [[previous sources no longer list the species], while captive bred sources have boomed [they just can't export]. In addition, wild populations have been found to be much more numerous than previously thought. CITES 1 listing was perhaps excessive, but in the short term it has compelled people to produce the species domestically and likely seriously limited laundering. With many breeding groups now established, a reduced listing would allow those CB animals to be dispersed more widely.

 

[Chris Newman]

Good to see you Chris! Still working with fires?

I'll have to try to watch it when it's available.

It's my impression that the wild trade has dropped dramatically [[previous sources no longer list the species], while captive bred sources have boomed [they just can't export]. In addition, wild populations have been found to be much more numerous than previously thought. CITES 1 listing was perhaps excessive, but in the short term it has compelled people to produce the species domestically and likely seriously limited laundering. With many breeding groups now established, a reduced listing would allow those CB animals to be dispersed more widely.

Sadly I have not done fires for about ten years due to work pressures, I have become a ruddy politician rather than a keepers…… I really would like to start keeping again, one day I will.

I think the trade in wild caught specimens has intensified over the last two years, not declined. Because the trade now is ‘illegal’ it is much more covert, the trade is not into Europe or the USA, rather the Far East, in my view this was inevitable once the species was listed on Appendix I.

My view is the Appendix I listed was a disaster for the species and the only hope it has of long term survival is a down listing to Appendix II, this would allow captive breeding projects to flourish and stem the illegal trade in wild animals.

I would welcome others thoughts on this!

 

[Sean90]

Will it show on uk BBC

 

[methodik]

The only example I can think of at the moment is the salamanderland from Austria, which had to close because of pressure from the bureaucracy, they have to get rid of all their newts, thus selling them, except for "about 50 adult N. kaiseri blocked by government". It's really a shame to see that hobbyists got the grip of breeding them, but are not able to spread the animals.

 

[Chris Newman]

It will be on BBC Persian Television which as I understand it is part BBC World Service but I don’t know which channel that is. I also think it will be on the web, I will find out. Apparently on of the issues this species faces in Iran they are collected for Persian New Year celebrations!!

 

[Mark]

Was there ever an instance where a private EU or US breeder shipped captive bred kaiseri to the far east? Personally I would not have considered it pre or post the CITES listing. You could possibly count on one hand the number of private hobbyist who have (legitimately, i.e. with proper paperwork) shipped any Caudata across international borders. Take Triturus as an example, they are not CITES listed but who is sending cb Triturus to the US? No one. The US is just struck with a limited gene pool of old imports, trading amongst themselves. Exactly how kaseri will go throughout the world (although international trade is still possible with certification).

The reason demand and prices have dropped in the EU and US is because kaiseri breed readily in captivity. The US have taken it upon themselves to classify cb specimens as Appendix II which negates the requirement for certificates when traded internally. In the UK certificates are easy and inexpensive to obtain. I wonder why this picture has not replicated itself in the far east? Are they just not breeding over there?

With regards to captive breeding programs I doubt the listing has affected the ability of an outside facility to help. The politics inside Iran are probably more of a hindrance than the CITES listing. Last I heard the Iranian Dept of Environment was setting up its own breeding program in addition to one already running at a University. I don't know if this has happened but I'm sure they are more than capable. The solution for kaiseri should come from within Iran and not be in the hands of private breeders.

 

[Chris Newman]

There certainly have been many CB Neurergus shipped to the Far East prior to the CITES listing, none since. I am not aware of how many N. kaiseri are currently kept either in the UK or EU with certificates. The UK CITES authority were I believe the first to issue A10’s, it was an undertaking given they would look at applications made in 2010/2011 sympathetically, how they will view latter application is unclear. Obviously those who made early applications will be better placed than those who apply latter. The situation regards to certificates being issued across the rest of the EU seems a little confused, some management authorities do, and others don’t. I don’t know how many N. kaiseri are kept without certificates but I would suspect the vast majority. I am not aware of any exports of N. kaiseri from the EU to non EU countries, theoretically it should be possible but the reality is I suspect very different.

Regards to your comment concerning exports of Triturus to the USA, I have no idea why no one is exporting them to the US? I assume there is no interest or it is not commercial viable, there are no legal issues that I am aware of?

 

[Sean90]

I found this link BBC News - Kent scientists bid to halt endangered species trade very quick and basic
searchinf for other footage

 

[Chris Newman]

Reports like this are quite poorly done, if the authorities genuinely wanted to find effective measures to deal with illegal trade then they should work more closely with industry and hobbyist, rather than fanatical anti trade organisations like IFAW. I suspect, however, as long as such organisations are allowed to make substantial financial donations to enforcement agencies this will not happen!