More captive plethodontid breedings

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
It has been a pretty successful year with plethodontids at the Toledo Zoo where I amazingly get paid to take care of salamanders. We had 3 clutches of Hemidactylium eggs with 60+ metamorphs produced. A clutch of Desmognathus welteri eggs are around 2/3 of their way through development. And the best IMO is the 2 clutches of Plethodon glutinosus eggs that were laid in the past week on exhibit. Both mothers are attending and the eggs are developing nicely in full view of the public. If the egg counts drop I will probably remove some to raise on perlite via the Russ Cormack (tm) method.

Here's a few photos for you to enjoy.
-Tim
 

Attachments

  • hemi metamorphs.jpg
    hemi metamorphs.jpg
    93.6 KB · Views: 545
  • welteri eggs.JPG
    welteri eggs.JPG
    220.4 KB · Views: 526
  • 2 glut nests.jpg
    2 glut nests.jpg
    77.9 KB · Views: 546
  • glut w eggs 2009.jpg
    glut w eggs 2009.jpg
    68.8 KB · Views: 1,171

Nathan050793

New member
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
828
Reaction score
32
Points
0
Location
Pennsylvania
Country
United States
Display Name
Nathan
Gah. This is just too cool for words; this is why I love this forum. Thanks for sharing!
 

John

Founder
Staff member
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
8,029
Reaction score
189
Points
63
Age
43
Location
USA
Country
Ireland
Display Name
John Clare
Wow Tim, you continue to impress :). I'm amazed by the Plethodon glutinosus - are they in full light or is it dark in there normally?
 

Mark

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
3,259
Reaction score
51
Points
48
Location
Bristol
Country
United Kingdom
Just amazing, Tim! I love the glutinosus display, and so do they by the looks of it. Thanks for sharing your successes with us all.
 

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
There is a normal day/night cycle with fairly bright lights (several 50W halogens and some 55W compact fluorescents) in the plethodontid seep exhibit. One layed under a substantial rock overhang that is well shaded, the other in a semi-exposed nook of the rockwork.
 

monkeyfrogman28

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
156
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts
Country
United States
Whats the best way to raise the Desmognathus welteri eggs? I found a clutch up in the mountains (mnt. Jimney or something in MA) They look 100% exactly like the picture. How do I care for them??? Do I leave the eggs on moist towels or submerged in water. I have them in a plastic tub with water under them.


Some of the larve are out of their eggs but arent moving and still have their yolk sacs. A couple are moving even tho they are out and some are moving in thier egg. The larve all have front and back limbs in their eggs.

Is it bad for them to be in the water right now while they are in thier egg?


Also they say that Desmognathus welteri are not found in MA at all but I have the eggs to prove it... THey look like your picture unless the picture is labled wrong. The larve are brownish with tiny spots in a line.
The reason I took them is because the mother was dead on the walk way. I think a mountain bike smooshed her. She was dead for several days. I saw a mouse check them out but I scarred it away and grabbed the eggs. I want to raise them. I have raised other salamanders but not this species.
 
Last edited:

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
Hi Monkeyfrogman,

If your eggs are from a Desmognathus species, which it sounds like they may be, it is almost certainly Desmognathus fuscus. Larval desmognathus look VERY similar between species.

Your best bet would be to find a small plastic container which seals well and put some perlite in the bottom dampened with pure distilled water. You do not want to put the eggs in water, or to allow the water to actually get the eggs soaking wet, just wet enough to keep the substrate damp and keep humidity high. If the eggs are sitting in water they may absorb too much and swell up, causing premature hatching.

Put the lid on the container and poke a small hole ~2mm in the lid. The eggs do not need much air and there is more of a risk of desiccation than suffocation if you allow too much air flow. Keep the container in a cool place, ~60-70F and check the eggs every few days. If the eggs do make it completely through development they can be raised like most other small larval salamanders...for which there is plenty of info on this website. The eggs can be difficult to hatch without the mother present, as they receive protection from harmful bacterial and fungal infections via contact with the female's skin.

Also, you may want to check on the legal status of keeping native amphibians in Massachusetts, as I am unfamiliar with your state's regulations.

Good luck!
Tim
 

monkeyfrogman28

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
156
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts
Country
United States
Thank you T.



One larve is already out swimming about. I took damp paper towels, stacked a large layer up and dampen them and under the towels there the water is so the larve will fall into it. I added some java moss in the water area as of now.
 

rust

New member
Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
798
Reaction score
12
Points
0
Location
North Carolina
Country
United States
Display Name
Russ Cormack
You are on a roll this year!
 

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
Update...More captive plethodontid breedings

9 eggs successfully hatched on exhibit last week for all to see. Now they've been removed to avoid predation by other species in the enclosure. We still have 6 eggs developing off exhibit as well.

-Tim
 

Attachments

  • glut-hatching.jpg
    glut-hatching.jpg
    70.6 KB · Views: 658

jaster

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
137
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Boone, North Carolina
Country
United States
Re: Update...More captive plethodontid breedings

Tim, you are living my dream. We just sent some Desmognathus quadramaculatus out to Kansas with hopes of them starting a breeding program. Cool stuff! Good luck with the eggs!
 

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
Mississippi River Museum has gotten eggs from quadramaculatus the past two years, but they keep going bad. Not sure if they've tried them on perlite/itraconazole though.

I guess I never updated the welteri, they hatched too and we have 10 good larvae eating and growing.
 

Attachments

  • welteri hatching-sm.JPG
    welteri hatching-sm.JPG
    360.5 KB · Views: 521

rust

New member
Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
798
Reaction score
12
Points
0
Location
North Carolina
Country
United States
Display Name
Russ Cormack
Very cool. I expect the same out of you with the zoo's bogies now!
 

jaster

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
137
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Boone, North Carolina
Country
United States
Mississippi River Museum has gotten eggs from quadramaculatus the past two years, but they keep going bad. Not sure if they've tried them on perlite/itraconazole though.

Interesting. I don't know why they chose D. quadramaculatus though, they take a lot longer to develop and mature... Their size is impressive though.
 

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
381
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
D. marmoratus has always interested me due to the completely aquatic habits. Kind of like keeping mini hellbenders.

Russ, I just set up all our Bolitoglossa in breeding groups today finally (had to build big shelving for all the potential salamanders the room will eventually hold) and they certainly seemed interested in each other. Keep your fingers crossed...
 

robertlhill

New member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Country
United States
Congrats Tim! You guys are kicking butt up there with the sallies. Keep it up dude!
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Lilith:
    Hey guys, one of my axolotls has developed some fungus on one of her gills, I've started salt baths, but do salt baths need to be done in the fridge, some people said I should have her in the fridge permanently during the process, even when not in the salt bath, is this true? As some people said its unnecessary as long as the tank is below 20°c which it is. Also do I need to get them both out the tank and clean it out?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Nagato:
    Does anybody know where I can find Triturus karelinii?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    RobynB27 has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    RobynB27 has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    RobynB27 has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Lilith:
    Does anyone know if aquacare general tonic is ok for axolotls as a treatment for bacterial or fungal infection?
    +1
    Unlike
  • faebugz:
    Hi Lilith, you can check the medications page for a list of axolotl safe treatments. Although if the infection is mild, I would stick with fridge and salt baths!
    +1
    Unlike
  • faebugz:
    I believe the fridge gets to about 54°, so if you can replicate that in the tank, it might be okay. I personally would fridge just to make catching them easier, and if the infection is something in the water column at all, it will hopefully die out while they're AWOL (I'm thinking like ich for fish, not sure if axies have an equivalent)
    +1
    Unlike
  • Lilith:
    Ok, thank you!
    +1
    Unlike
  • chitoos:
    My three inch axolotl was having trouble pooping up to a few days ago. I wasn't feeding her as often because I was scared I would just add to her constipation. I fridged her until she pooped (twice), and then began to feed her around 6 bloodworms every other day. she's been pooping everyday now, but she's at that age where you can see through her stomach and I always see poop ready to come out but has not yet passed. I don't think she's constipated anymore, but I'm not sure and i don't want to over or underfeed her... any advice?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    Feed it chopped worms chitoos, its big enough and bloodworm is nutritionaly deficient.
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    Freeze dried , live or frozen bloodworm.
    +1
    Unlike
  • chitoos:
    Oh ok thanks! I thought she might be ready for something more. do you have any advice about the apparent poop problem?
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    @Lilith, fridging is not required for fungus treatment. Read my thread on treatment.
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    Feed it more, six bloodworm isnt much, dont use freeze dried foods
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    Feed daily , remove uneaten food
    +1
    Unlike
  • chitoos:
    Gotcha, Thank you!
    +1
    Unlike
  • xxianxx:
    Its probably not pooping because its hardly beign fed, it pooped in the fridge because the lower temp caused it to purge itself. If it stays constipated you can pm me
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    xxianxx has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Audrey22:
    Hi guys. Quick question. I have newly morphed eastern newt efts. They lost their gills but they still prefer the water. I have coconut fiber, moss, hidey holes and some food in the temporary habitat for them (waiting for the other newts to morph as well). But they still run back to the water. Is it the wrong substrate? Do they prefer something other than coconut fiber? I've been doing everything else properly (According to my research) but just wondering why they haven't ventured up. Have any ideas?
    +1
    Unlike
    Audrey22: Hi guys. Quick question. I have newly morphed eastern newt efts. They lost their gills but they... +1
    Top