FYI: Shopping list for axolotl owners

Jake · Dec 25, 2011

Really? A bucket, jug, tub, jar, eye dropper, test tube, swimming pool, water tower, enema bag, water balloon and drinking glass must all be buckets because they all hold water and come in different shapes and size.

I think it's a bit ridiculous that people make it more complicated than it should be and then wonder why they have problems keeping their axolotls healthy.

I never advised against using the things listed, I said that they are not necessary. Checking the water temperature must not be as important as you're making it seem because I haven't checked the water temperature on any of my axolotls in a long time and they are doing fine.

I also never said that every single person should do it my way (as you seem to think I did). I was simply trying to give advice that I know will work and is simple enough for a kid to do if they have an axolotl as a first pet.

Jake · Dec 25, 2011

SludgeMunkey said:
As for simplicity versus complexity, experience is THE factor, and for those that lack experience, it is better to start out the long way rather than use the short cuts we old timers use.

I still disagree. It is much easier to learn simple addition and subtraction before one attempts to wrap their mind around differential calculus.

iSuzie · Dec 25, 2011

Checking the temperature is extremely important! I live in Australia there the room temperature in an average house hold is 30 degree's in summer. The point im trying to make here is that you can not possibly know what is or isn't necessary when keeping axolotls because you are not in the same situations, house or country as other people. The main point really is what's necessary to me might not be to you, but that doesn't make it not necessary to me now does it?
Different circumstances means different things will be required by different people. How could you possibly know the best set up for someone that you are not. You seem to think that anyone can have axies in a tub anywhere in the world without anything but food but you really are missing the key thing here, you don't know what there water is like, what temperatures they are living in and other key factors that relate to axie keeping that may result in a number of the things listed to be required.

As for the bucket and a tub, they are practically the same thing.. Seriously you want to argue over the differences between a bucket and a tub???

Im really over this conversation, I don't really like to spend my time arguing with someone on-line that i generally find my self agreeing with on pretty much ever other matter on this forum. I hope you understand my point and what i was saying, and understand I generally agree with you, but not ever situation is the same and that's all I was trying to get across to you.

Jake · Dec 25, 2011

iSuzie said:
As for the bucket and a tub, they are practically the same thing.. Seriously you want to argue over the differences between a bucket and a tub???

I never argued. I agreed that tubs, buckets, and enema bags all hold water.

iSuzie said:
you can not possibly know what is or isn't necessary when keeping axolotls

Cool clean water and food in conjunction with common sense....no matter where you are in the world.

vagus · Dec 25, 2011

I would add

2 sealable food containers (tupperware, glad) for each axolotl as you will need these for fridging them (1 for the axolotl, one for the next day's water). Only use these for the axolotls!

1 refrigerator thermometer to know you are keeping their temp stable

And, to qualify, test kit does not mean the horribly expensive and inaccurate test strips.

Great list!

Also, if maintaining temperatures will be a problem consider a window mount Air Conditioner. That way you and the axolotls both benefit!

dad of axle · Dec 25, 2011

As some one who is new to the world of axolotl's and living in Australia. I think the most critical thing would be to have a standard vet approved leaflet handed out with the sale of axolotl's. Something that covered feeding, water condition ( eg chlorination and hardness of water and details of vet's in the area that treat axolotl's when they need a vet.)
also vital is an emphasis on not putting them with goldfish and keeping them at the right temperature.

My axolotl came home to as a baby and i was doing 20 percent water changes in a 40 cm tank everyday. Feeding Blood-worms too. If I hadn't asked enough questions at the pet shop I would not of known that they are carnivorous and not to give him fish food.

The Pet Shop I got my axolotl from uses bags for their goldfish with most of this type of information printed on it in relation to how to set up your new fish tank.

kiathepooch · Dec 26, 2011

When I looked into axolotls and their care,the first half dozen results were from this site and axolotl.org.
I read all the information I could find-I even read the "sick" bit of the forums.
Then I found axolotls near me(I waited two years.....incase I changed my mind about owning them)so within a week I had a tank,filter,home made hides,bucket,siphon,aquasafe and test kit and 3 juvenile axolotls.
These were my first aquatic pets and I have to say a lot of advice given by people in here is overly complicated or should I say care advice?
I have a basic grasp of cycling(chemistry was and still is very confusing) my tank might not look "pretty" or "nice",in fact I looks like I don't care about it(which is true,I don't care what it looks like)plant wise it looks like a swamp BUT my axolotls have had no issues(even during cycling).
If I was to start over I doubt I'd even buy a filter,I'd more than likely not get a 4ft tank and I'd keep them in tubs like my newts.
My long winded point is,the more complicated it is,the more can go wrong. I was and still am happy to do full or partial daily water changes and have what could be deemed as ugly looking tanks but it works a whole lot better than relying on a filter(which is dodgy where I live as you prepay for electric).
Keep the list simple,sufficient and short.
So many issues with axolotls on here are due to overcomplication or the fact people don't research for themselves first.
/rant

Sent,using the power of my mind.....

Jake · Dec 26, 2011

kiathepooch said:
the more complicated it is,the more can go wrong.

I'm glad someone agrees! One must learn to walk before they can run.

Azhael · Dec 26, 2011

I think we all have different perceptions of what complicated means to us. I for example find the daily water changes method surreal xD My tanks are so low maintenance it´s ridiculous.

Azhael · Dec 27, 2011

I thought i should describe what my method is nowadays, just to deal with this notion of complexity that completely baffles me.
I have different set-ups, but the simplest consists of water and plants, period. Complex, uh? It requires a partial water change of 10-20% (it´s not like i meassure it) once every month or so, which more often than not gets closer to every two months. I have two of these tanks which i don´t even have a light on. They are on the windowshill and that suffices (no sun ever reaches my house).
I syphon out part of the debris (not all) about twice a year with a piece of tube.
I completely fail to see what´s complex about any of that. You can hardly have a system that requires less attention and maintenance. Compare that to doing daily water changes and tell me this method is complicated....
The point is, neither method is complicated. They both are extremely easy but one requires daily water changes and provides very little thermal stability, among other things, while the other just maintains itself for the most part and is far more stable. Both methods work, and they work well, but saying that the method i describe is too complicated is just silly. I have to do "maintenance" once a month and change the equivalent amount of water that the other method requires daily. I know which one i prefer, being a lazy bugger....

Kaysie · Dec 27, 2011

Suzie, you completely missed Jake's method: to take an axolotl from a tub, and put it in another that is full of fresh water. He doesn't do 'water changes' in the way that you're envisioning (taking water out of a tank, putting it into a bucket with a siphon, dumping it, and putting fresh water back into the tank). It's just about the simplest way to do a 100% water change I could think of, unless you can somehow beam the axolotl into the new tank without touching it at all.

Personally, I never cycled a tank. My adult tanks cycled on their own, and my use of a filter was only to prevent stagnant water (and gnats). I raised all my larvae in sandwich containers with 100% water changes.

SabreRose · Dec 27, 2011

SludgeMunkey said:
6. Water Conditioner- Avoid "slime coat" products. Buy products that remove chlorine, chloramine, and metals. Sodium thiosulfate based solutions are best.

I get the rest of it, but why avoid slime coat? Aren't they designed for amphibians?

Jake · Dec 28, 2011

Azhael said:
I thought i should describe what my method is nowadays, just to deal with this notion of complexity that completely baffles me.
I have different set-ups, but the simplest consists of water and plants, period. Complex, uh? It requires a partial water change of 10-20% (it´s not like i meassure it) once every month or so, which more often than not gets closer to every two months. I have two of these tanks which i don´t even have a light on. They are on the windowshill and that suffices (no sun ever reaches my house).
I syphon out part of the debris (not all) about twice a year with a piece of tube.
I completely fail to see what´s complex about any of that. You can hardly have a system that requires less attention and maintenance. Compare that to doing daily water changes and tell me this method is complicated....
The point is, neither method is complicated. They both are extremely easy but one requires daily water changes and provides very little thermal stability, among other things, while the other just maintains itself for the most part and is far more stable. Both methods work, and they work well, but saying that the method i describe is too complicated is just silly. I have to do "maintenance" once a month and change the equivalent amount of water that the other method requires daily. I know which one i prefer, being a lazy bugger....

While I admire the fact that you are trying to help, it should be noted that a LOT can go wrong when raising axolotls with your method. I used to keep almost all of my newts that way, but most newts don't get nearly as large as axolotls and don't produce the amount of waste that they produce. 10-20% water changes on an axolotl for a beginner with the right balance of plants is much more complex than 100% water changes. Full water changes take out all of the guess work and leaves less room for error (unless the keeper decides to be a lazy bugger). So yes, your method is in fact more complicated for beginners who have never kept aquariums whether or not it takes more physical effort.

Azhael · Dec 28, 2011

Well, i disagree. It depends on the volume of water and the amount of plants. We clearly have our personal preferences and no method is ever perfect, each has its advantages and its disadvantages. You´ve had problems with cycled tanks, and i´ve had problems with 100% water changes. At least we can share both our experiences since both can work really well given the right conditions.

Greatwtehunter · Dec 28, 2011

Azhael said:
You´ve had problems with cycled tanks, and i´ve had problems with 100% water changes.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of problems are we talking about?

Jake · Dec 28, 2011

Azhael said:
. You´ve had problems with cycled tanks, and i´ve had problems with 100% water changes.

I would like to know what problems you're referring too as well. The only problem with cycled tanks that I have is that it is complicated for a beginner. I have kept cycled tanks and if done correctly they are nice to have, unfortunately we are talking about beginners here and they may not have the same experience.

My point was 100% water change is simple to master, there is no guess work like figuring out the right amount of plants to use and the right volume of water, plus both are subject to change depending on the size and number of animals....which is a complication.

Azhael · Dec 28, 2011

Me, and many others, have had problems rearing larvae in sterile conditions. I´ve heard many, many reports of people having losses when using the daily change method in a bare container, and even with 50% changes. After stopping doing those kind of changes and changing to more stable conditions, the deaths stopped. I´ve had the best results in "large", stablished tanks, applying a healthy amount of benign neglect. Of course individual experience and results vary, but i´m certainly not alone in this.

I get your point, 100% water changes is as simple as it gets. Agreed. My point is that the simplest method may not be the best method for certain circumstances and that the method i describe can hardly be considered complicated, even in comparisson. Personally, for beginners, i find the cycled tank method preferable because while still being mindblowingly simple, it offers greater stability and the possibility of buffering easy beginner mistakes (which unfortunately more often than not, will happen). Plus, it´s not like offering more space and visual barriers, hides, etc, is bad for the animal....

Jake · Dec 28, 2011

Azhael said:
Me, and many others, have had problems rearing larvae in sterile conditions. I´ve heard many, many reports of people having losses when using the daily change method in a bare container, and even with 50% changes. After stopping doing those kind of changes and changing to more stable conditions, the deaths stopped. I´ve had the best results in "large", stablished tanks, applying a healthy amount of benign neglect. Of course individual experience and results vary, but i´m certainly not alone in this.

I get your point, 100% water changes is as simple as it gets. Agreed. My point is that the simplest method may not be the best method for certain circumstances and that the method i describe can hardly be considered complicated, even in comparisson. Personally, for beginners, i find the cycled tank method preferable because while still being mindblowingly simple, it offers greater stability and the possibility of buffering easy beginner mistakes (which unfortunately more often than not, will happen). Plus, it´s not like offering more space and visual barriers, hides, etc, is bad for the animal....

I have had problems raising certain species of larvae in sterile conditions as well. Unfortunately you seem to be forgetting that this is the axolotl section and this thread is aimed at beginners who plan to keep axolotls, not newt larvae. People will report losses no matter which method they choose, but if you pay attention to this section you will see that more people report losses when they are using a filter, and most of the losses reported in tubs of still water are of animals being kept that way in the fridge. I'm sure you already knew that though because you pay close attention to the axolotl section and have more experience with them than most people, right?

If cycling tanks is so "mindblowingly simple" then why do so many people have a difficult time with it? Have you not read the countless threads about cycling issues in the axolotl section?? I never said offering more space and visual barriers is bad for the animal, I never even hinted at that, so where did you get that idea?

Azhael · Dec 28, 2011

Ok, Jake, you and your incredible wit win. I know nothing.
I hope others can see the points made in this thread.

Jake · Dec 28, 2011

Azhael said:
Personally, for beginners, i find the cycled tank method preferable because while still being mindblowingly simple, it offers greater stability and the possibility of buffering easy beginner mistakes (which unfortunately more often than not, will happen).

FYI: Shopping list for axolotl owners

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