FYI: Shopping list for axolotl owners

[Azhael]

The majority of those threads are people trying to cycle the tank with the animals already in. How´s that indicative of problems when things are done properly and the tank is properly cycled in advanced? The rest are flukes or the product of very bad ideas. It would be like judging your method by the actions of someone who missed the water changes for days at a time or made the changes with untreated water at a different temperature. It´s not an indication of a fault with the method, but a fault in the execution. When cycling is done properly it can´t be considered difficult or problematic. When it´s done very badly, of course it´s a problem...but any method works badly if you don´t do it as you should.
I think drinking beer is very, very easy, and yet my friend tried to drink it through a nostril and made a horrible mess....what a surprise!
If the method you describe was the predominant one among newbies you think we wouldn´t hear things like "I put my axie in a lidless tupperware and overnight it jumped out and it´s now dead, what did i do wrong?". Not the method´s fault. People WILL find ways of messing up even with the simplest tasks.

Plus i got the impresion that none of those examples actually fit the method i described. I didn´t mention the use of filters, plastic plants, etc...
Anyway, what´s clear is that ad hominem attacks don´t prove points.

 

[Jake]

Plus i got the impresion that none of those examples actually fit the method i described. I didn´t mention the use of filters, plastic plants, etc...
Anyway, what´s clear is that ad hominem attacks don´t prove points.

Your exact words are below. The method you described as preferable involves a cycled tank, you needed not mention filters, it was implied, and I never said you mentioned plastic plants so I'm not sure why you are reassuring me of this.

I never attacked you, I disagreed.

Personally, for beginners, i find the cycled tank method preferable because while still being mindblowingly simple, it offers greater stability and the possibility of buffering easy beginner mistakes (which unfortunately more often than not, will happen).

Beginner mistakes will happen more often when dealing with the delicate environment that is a cycling tank than doing the "dump the old water, replace with new water" method.

The majority of those threads are people trying to cycle the tank with the animals already in. How´s that indicative of problems when things are done properly and the tank is properly cycled in advanced?

The point is that people have issues cycling the tanks. There is a lot of room for error when adjusting water chemistry and depending on biological filtration especially to someone who is totally new to it all. I never said 100% water changes are fool proof because the keeper can't be lazy and must use common sense.

 

[Bellabelloo]

When I joined the forum prior to getting my first axolotl I was clueless about cycling my tank. I have no idea how so many of my watery pets survived and thrived.
I would have liked to have seen a list of items I would need in preparation, plus an idiots guide to cycling a tank, I would even look through numerous posts to find the relevant information. I still prefer to have my animals in a cycled tank. When I raise eggs, especially axolotl eggs, I would use the simpler method, like the one Jake posted in his thread. However, having read zillions of posts now, depending on the volume of eggs I get ( depending on the co-operation of certain newts) I would also use a well planted and established tank.
People will use the methods that suit them. It would be nice to have nice simple guides on how to do it, with out, dare I say it bickering. I think its ruining these posts. I am now at the stage that I don't know which of these two posts I am looking at, the one Johnny started or the one Jake started. Maybe you should collaborate and come up with one simple post offering various methods that work for you all ?

 

[Kaysie]

I think the problem herein lies in the definition of the word 'simple'. What is simple for one person isn't always for everybody. Rodrigo might be an expert aquarium designer and know all the right plants, so he can set up a nice planted tank in his sleep. But Janie might not know a dang thing about plants or tanks or chlorine or 'axoltyls', and that setup would be more difficult for her.

On the other hand, Jake is home every day, has a nice cool basement, and has lots of time and space devoted to taking care of his axolotl spawn until they're big enough to sell or eat. Leon, on the other hand, is working full time, and a grad student, and is usually only home enough to poop and shower before he's gone again. Sometimes he's gone for a day or two, doing research and staying with his girlfriend. Being a scientist, he loves the idea of creating a little mini-ecosystem in his tank and creating as natural a setup as possible, and has plenty of time to let the tank just sit and cycle.

Everyone here has a valid opinion. However, this forum is not for cramming your opinion down the throats of others. State your opinion, rebuttal if needed. There's no need to sit here and nit-pick at each other to the detriment of the forum. You're all grown adults; act accordingly.

 

[Linus]

Love you guys

 

[Kaysie]

It's irritating as a moderator to have to police threads on a professional forum. This isn't a daycare, and we're not spoiled toddlers. We are all here to advance the hobby of keeping salamanders (or herps in general), not to tear into each other for subtle differences in styles of husbandry.

It irritates me because we're not all professionals, or even hobbyist keepers. Some people who come here have NO CLUE what an axolotl is, or even what an amphibian is! It's our job to educate them and guide them through how to keep their animal alive, which is harder with some people than it is for others.

Part of this is to provide them with options on how they can keep their animal. These options can be as simple as a bowl with water, or as elaborate as a Walstad setup with full-spectrum lighting. They can be equally as effective, given the circumstances of the individual. We are here to give the pros and cons of each setup, and to provide information. We can provide them with all the options in the world, but no one is going to take anyone seriously if they see banal bickering between people in a thread. When that happens, salamanders die because people don't trust the advice they receive here.

I don't know about you guys, but I've been a member of this forum for a long time, most of my adult life. This forum and what it stands for is an integral part of my life. I truly enjoy my time spent here, helping others and generally spreading the nerdy word. So when I see trite commentary like this, it really grates me. I think it brings us all down as a collective, and how is that fair to the people who are here for the science?

John has gone above and beyond many times to ensure this forum survives, and to allow us all the privilege of talking to other people who don't think we're strange for liking 'fish lizards'. Many people have put a lot of effort into making this an enriching, rewarding environment.

So for the love of *insert deity*, will you all grow up?

 

[SludgeMunkey]

I would like to know what problems you're referring too as well. The only problem with cycled tanks that I have is that it is complicated for a beginner. I have kept cycled tanks and if done correctly they are nice to have, unfortunately we are talking about beginners here and they may not have the same experience.

My point was 100% water change is simple to master, there is no guess work like figuring out the right amount of plants to use and the right volume of water, plus both are subject to change depending on the size and number of animals....which is a complication.

Sorry dude.

The problem has to deal with time.

Not everyone can spend five hours a day taking care of their critters, like you, I and a few others around here.

So before you continue with inflammatory remarks, perhaps you should at least make the attempt to understand that MOST axolotl owners have a basic understanding of aquarium chemistry, but lack the time and dedication that a handful of us do.

As you say rather than "loving them to death", learn how to do it right. This means it takes time, and most folks do not/will not spend the amount of time you do on the subject.


I stand by the list just as you stand by yours. So instead of randomly arguing with people for the sake of being an instigator, be constructive instead...perhaps you should write a guide for CC on the "Jake Method" and help folks to make a decision for themselves.


Nothing personal manno, but methinks you are taking this far too seriously and that the Mods should remove this thread.