Shrimps with Axolotls

[dazkeirle]

cheers for that Ted, is that the elite 60l? if so then thats the eventual home for my shrimpies.

I admit my setup is less than ideal, and will certainly test has hardy RCS are but I have my fingers crossed. If they pull through for me I will reward with the big tank in time.

My main concern is temperature as i dont have a heater in there and filtration, however i know the bioload is low so water changes weekly should be ok.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

all very interesting stuff indeed.

 

[ted22]

cheers for that Ted, is that the elite 60l? if so then thats the eventual home for my shrimpies.

Nah its the arc 35ltr so only a nano tank sharing with guppy fry but should be fine for them im starting em off in there as its a lot easier to see them and monitor their progress n then will transfer a few over to the elite60 ones they have bred, the last lot went into my elite60 and all but one dissapeerd without a trace (there were 10), im absolutely baffled theres only guppies in there! But once the population is established il start sharing them around all the tanks, ive got the elite60 already set up to be shrimp friendly (caves and plants) for when they get moved over. and a load more elodea in it to take over the tank when it all grows, i just have no idea what happened to the last lot unless they ate each other not leaving a scrap (doubt it tho)!
Future shrimp tank elite60.....

Im hoping to get population explosions left right and centre if I put a few in each tank, once theyve bred initially of course! loads of over grown elodea should protect the little baby shrimpys too can wait for it to really grow some!

Anyone have any idea on a good temp for the shrimps and their breeding? Ive got my fry tank at 26 and female guppy tank at 24 is there a preferable temp for them? or is that about right?

 

[dazkeirle]

nice work

I know what you mean about dissapearing shrimp. I think I've already lost one...

Oh well two females and one male left....

Kind of like a film I once watched

 

[morphyrichards]

They look like happy shrimp Daz! I think the secret to rc shrimp breeding is warmth, food and water quality. Give em the odd bit of chopped up carrot, the occasional pea here and there as well as ordinary fish food and they should do well.

Another idea ... you could introduce a bag of daphnea to the shrimp tank as well, as filter feeders they should help keep your water quality good. They should reproduce as well and you can scoop the odd batch out to feed to any fishies you might have. Have you got live plants in that tub as well?

Here's my axololtl food tanks setup ... bottom tank has a fair bit of algae growing but that's ok cos the shrimps seem to love grazing on it.

 

[dazkeirle]

looks sweet Morphy, I like your setups.

I like the way around here things work. 1 axie > 2 axie > shrimp.....

My setup right now is not ideal, and I'm not hugely optimistic however Shrimp supposedly are quite prolific breeders and I'll do what I can.

The box is effectively an oversized rigid plastic shoe box (not allowed another tank), however I appreciate the need for consistent water quality and so altough i have only 3 (or 4) shrimp I have 5 medium sized moss balls in there, which they are grazing on and from what i read is a very good nitrate remover.

The rock is also large and although it has been dry for months is still covered in algae which they are happy nibbling on. It has many crevices and caves within it which they appear to like, and is probably why I have never seen all 4.

I have got some tropical fish algae sinking pellets which I'm experimenting with, I dropped one in last night to test, they happily ate some of it however 1 pellet is far too much for 3 so after a few hours i removed the uneaten food.

I'm going to feed perhaps 1/8th of a pellet a day to ensure no fouling of the water takes place.

every day or 2 I'm going to do 10 - 20% water changes as I'm not running a filter, however bio-load should be very low, and the amount of cycled material and plant mater should cater for this but I won't know until a couple of days testing. I hope to get away without a filter as this box is in my office and the noise would drive me wild of a air bubble pump.

While the Daphnia would make nice food, it would be hard for me to control and remove to keep water params good so I think I'll need to wait for a real tank for that.

My main concern is temperature as no heater, however the tub is in a box in the warmest room of my 1st floor flat with my pc running and my guitar amps etc. The room is always toasty and I hope this should suffice for now.

The whole point of this is to hopefully create a small colony to move to Barney's tank when he's old enough to go in with Fred. I want hundreds in the main tank eventually, RCS CRS CBS etc.

Any advise like that you've given can only help me achieve this so thanks very much.

 

[morphyrichards]

I think your dead right to be concerned about water quality. I know cherries are reasonably hardy but I also read somewhere that cherries will not survive a tank cycling process so keep water changes up while your setup is establishing. But dont go so far in that direction that you remove all food as your shrimp will starve as well ... Good luck, I hope you achieve a successful colony

 

[dazkeirle]

I think your dead right to be concerned about water quality. I know cherries are reasonably hardy but I also read somewhere that cherries will not survive a tank cycling process so keep water changes up while your setup is establishing. But dont go so far in that direction that you remove all food as your shrimp will starve as well ... Good luck, I hope you achieve a successful colony

Exactly, I read somewhere they need enough food per day for them each to eat within 2 minutes, which isn't a lot considering the amount of micro algae from the used moss balls as well.

Regarding keeping water quality good, nothing can be better than regular water changes, and on such a small tub we're talking 1 - 2 jugs out the window or feeding my Venus Flytraps and then 2 more from the sink to replace.]

I'll soon determine if that's enough though from testing.

Very low hassle.

 

[DavidF]

I keep a tank of RCS. I bought 200 I think for $100 from a hobbyist guy I found online that lived near me. LFS are too expensive - they wanted $5 each. Like someone said, someone will have them and eventually have too many.

Shrimp like good water chemistry. I've read online in shrimp forums that some dwarf shrimp die easily but RCS are the hardiest of the dwarf ones. Standard conditions are 26 deg C, no ammonia, nitrite and minimal nitrate. Neutral pH or slightly alkaline. I believe that a sponge filter is a must. I have one. A powered filter just sucks your babies into it...the bigger shrimp can swim away but your breeding suffers with a power filter. Java moss too for the shrimp too hide. Don't keep any other fish with them in your main breeding tank. Happy, well fed RCS in good water conditions breed easily. I feed them mainly algae (spirulina) wafers and maybe once or twice a week some bottom feeder tablets (ground up earthworm meal). I've only been going for 6 months and aren't having any dramas....unless you count my ealy mistakes - the guppies that ate them or my water chemistry problems that killed some but I'm well over stocked from where I started so things are going well.

I've put maybe 20 into the Axies. Who knows where they went as they aren't all there now. Maybe eaten. Most were too big to worry about the power filter. There is a berried female so they must be happily breeding amongst the Axies too. I've got java moss in the Axie tank too. They love somewhere to hide. They are good for the axie tank but unless you stock it right up, they dont seem to be great food source as the Axies dont seem to be making progress in eating them. I never put food into the Axie tank specifically for the RCS - I've got enough algae on my driftwood, java moss and anubias plant. And as a cleaning crew, again, I think I need to put in another 20-30 or so to make a quick difference.

I like them in the Axie tank as they scurry about and it is fun to play hide and seek with them as I'm always wondering if they are still in there.

My LFS even told me the other day I could sell them some of my excess RCS as store credit. That would be a bit of a bonus but would my Axies be annoyed they didn't get an opportunity to eat them?

Good luck
David

 

[dazkeirle]

hey, thanks for taking the time to reply. You advice will certainly be of help when I have a full sized tank that I can devote to shrimp.

Right now though I have a shoe box with basic requirements as an experiment...

When you say a Sponge filter do you mean a basic sponge filter driven by an air pump?

My main issue with these is the noise the air pumps make but I guess I could get over that.

However a basic sponge filter like this doesn't really do more than removing larger particles in the water and providing sponge like matter for bacteria to develop on? So basically just mechanical and biological filtration. Looking at these basic devices in my LFS they are very basic and I can't really see how much purpose they serve, the amount of movement of water through them is minimal and the surface area also very low.

Which plenty of cycled matter in the tank I would hope that there was enough bac to deal with the bio load naturally, and waste matter hopefully can be addressed as and when.

Do you not feel that pantyhose over the inlet of a low power power filter such as the elite stingray (as I have) would be suitable for a breeding environment?

 

[mroli123]

This post has made me go off and buy 20 cherry shrimp! I already have a tank which is running with nothing in it, planning on leaving the shrimp in it for a month or so hopefully will build up some numbers then transfer half into my axoltotl tank! Also have some baby axolotls, how big should they be before I put shrimp in with them?

 

[dazkeirle]

Hey thats not fair! It should be me getting all the lovely Cherry Shrimp in my tanks...

 

[ted22]

I would have thought the stingray would be fine daz, (too small for your shoe box of course) just make sure the sponge is pushed right down into the triangle inlet bit with no gaps! and get loads of elodea lol! its just pondweed another great nitrate remover and excellent cover, you can have it floating too! Its only 30p a bunch over here so very cheap and grows like you wouldnt belive!

 

[dazkeirle]

OK Day 1 of the shoe box aquarium:


Method:

As before however have added a heater to the aquarium. I've set this to 26.5 degrees.

Fed only an eighth of an algae disc.

Did some water tests.


Observations:



Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 1ppm

Nitrate - 5ppm

Definately only 3 shrimp in there. Wonder where the other is?


Conclusions:

A little concerned over the Nitrite reading but shrimps appear to be fine.

Only a little food matter remaining, I feel I should perhaps leave a little more to build up a little Ammonia to get the Nitrate going.

I'm just gonna do a 10% water change in a mo and hope that the shrimp can survive this partial cycle.

Givin there are I think only 2 female and 1 male in there, it's gonna take a miracle for these to colonise, however I do feel like I'm playing God a little, and I've got my own Adam and Eve, just I have a spare Eve, we'll call her Lilith

 

[dazkeirle]

update, the addition of the heater appears to have comforted the 4th Shrimpy, who must have been hiding in a crevis all this time!

The 2nd male, that has appeared amongst the shrimpies is called Gabriel.

 

[DavidF]

Hi Daz

Yes, I did mean a sponge filter driven by an air pump. You say they don't do much and I thought the same but they do a great job. The sponge holds all of the good bacteria to keep your water chemistry good. The air increases dissolved oxygen. When I do water changes, I keep a bucket load of the old water and then squeeze the sponge filter into it and you'd be amazed at how black the dirt is that comes out of it. The filter collects a lot of dirt. Also, the shrimp love to clean the bits and bobs that get sucked into it so it is a food source for them too. The air drives / circulates a lot of water through the sponge....more than you'd imagine.

Most people on the shrimp forums seem to use a sponge filter so I just followed the crowd and it works. They are cheap but if you already have a power filter then that is your cheapest option I suppose. Try your power filter so long as you put sponge or wrap something around the intake to stop the babies getting sucked up and see how it goes. Should be ok if the intake is protected.

Your cycling with the RCS in the tank should be ok. just keep checking it. I've had chemistry issues and probably only a shrimp here or there have died out of many, many that scurry around the tank. The other shrimp ate the dead ones....Nitrite 1ppm isn't great but shouldn't kill them.

As an example of how hardy the RCS appear to be, I've transferred my shrimp to another temporary tank as the first shrimp tank got infested with snails. It was impossible to get every last shrimp as they hide in the java moss with the snails. In went the copper....dosed it up multiple times above the recommendation and maybe 3 times over a week. Only about half the remaining RCS died, the rest live on (perhaps not happily though). I'm letting the copper continue its work for a month or so before I clean it and put the shrimp back. I thought the copper would wipe them out in an instant but it didn't.

Cheers
Dave

 

[dazkeirle]

Hey man, I didn't mean they don't do much. I just meant physically they just house bacteria, just same as a moss ball or two would. Your absolutely right about oxygen though, I hadn't considered that.

Sucking the water through is obviously gonna make a nice filter for dirt, but I hope that water changes will dilute it enough to be more than habitable.

I will of course use a filter eventually, I'm just working on the compromie of not being able to on a plastic box (although theres a heater now so why not lol, I've seen smaller nano tanks )

Amazing regarding your attempted genocide of shrimp, I've read about copper, i hear it's incredibly poisonous. They must be hardy!

Rest assure friend, when the tank is free everything will be by the book, not least water chemistry, however I can't just have these thing lying around not being used, if I can create some little area of life then why not eh?

p.s. did a 15-20% water change, Nitrites down to 0.

Easily maintainable, 2 jugs out 2 jugs in, done!

 

[DavidF]

One more thing I forgot to mention. My shrimp population seemed to take off after a few months of settling in. Only a few females berried up to start so it was a bit disappointing when things weren't happening striaght away. Then, after a few months I noticed they would berry up in waves all at similar time and sure enough there were baby shrimp covering the glass everywhere. With so many shrimp flying around in the tank, I had trouble doing water changes and even if I'm careful I always suck 10 baby shrimp into the syphon and have to scoop them back out of my bucket. Good luck - they are fun. Dave

 

[dazkeirle]

Hi David,

Thanks for your valuable observations, they will certainly help me during this.

When you say berried up please tell me what you mean. Is this what females do before bearing eggs? What should I watch out for?

Also I think I've worked out why Gabe disappeared for a while, a small exoskeleton can be seen today on the subs, which i can only assume is his.

I've left it there for them to eat again.

The temperate has made them far more lively and all are happily chowing on algae on my rock, leaving the algae discs well alone, lol.

 

[DavidF]

I attached a picutre - some of the shrimp feeding on a algae wafer.

The girls have yellow in the saddle on their backs when they are preparing to mate. The yellow are the eggs. Next you'll see the eggs under them (ie berried). That goes for a couple of weeks. Then all going well you'll see lots of little ones swimming around and hanging on the glass walls.

Cheers
Dave

 

[dazkeirle]

wow David many thanks, that really is a large density, I had no idea they could get like that!

Go you have any more info or pics of your setup.

Thanks for your info.

p.s. something I've tried hard to find the answer to, how many eggs does a female have at once, and what is the frequency of breeding?