Taricha Granulosa

Chinadog

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Oh no that's terrible! I wonder if it would be worth trying them in a terrestrial setup, at least it would rule out something in their water?
 

Azhael

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I´m really sorry to hear that, Julia :S
It does sound superficially like some kind of poisoning, but i have no idea what the source might be. The worms seem unlikely.
I hope moving the animals to a new enclosure makes the deaths stop.

Is there anything in the tank that´s new or that could be leaching metals or whatever?
 

bellabelloo

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Nothing was new in the tank since they were first placed there, it had sand, plants and slate and stones. The tank had been used in the past for raising various eggs, but cleaned after each use. I am at a loss to know what happened. I am a little suspicious that this occurred after they were fed, but none of my other animals are showing any problems.
The two healthier ones are in a more terrestrial set up, they are both sat in a small water bowl.
 

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I am so sorry about your losses. I know what it feels like when it seems you do everything "right" and then there is "unexplained" loss. I, also have raised Taricha granulosa, and I have experienced all the challenges of raising them from eggs. Though I have had some success raising a few to adulthood, I also have had some"unexplained" losses along the way. One thought that comes to mind: hidden disease in the tank. Sometimes, even the cleanest tanks can carry disease and bacterial colonies hidden in the plants and rocks that can transfer to cleanly added water again ( if rocks etc are not cleaned also ). I have had fish epidemics spread this way. Also, another thought: your juveniles might be going through life-cycle related changes in their needs. I just know,my juvenile Taricha seem to really want to become "land phase" after metamorphasis. I have tried keeping them aquatic... but they seem to really "want" to get out of water and live in rocks and leaves ( they try to climb on up everything!). Their skin gets really rough and bumpy like their hormonal state is "pulling them" to the land. However, later in life, (about 18 to 24 months old ) my Taricha seem to accept being aquatic again. ( I always like this because aquatic is an easier set-up!) Anyway, I just wonder if your juvenile Taricha might thrive better in a land set-up for now? Just some thoughts...

Please know I am rooting for you and your little guys! ( I love the species)

Jane
 

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Sorry to hear this Julia . Never nice losing animals especially unknown deaths.I hope the other two make it.
 

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As said above, its always awfull losing animals, and especially when the cause is not known.
I had a problem last year with newts dying for unknown reasons, and with no signs of anything wrong with them.
A very distressing time for me and I, more than once thought of stopping keeping amphibians all alltogether.
My Cyclone then pointed out Bactyfec from here
Fertilisers & Feeds Price List

I used it, and the deaths stopped.
With not knowing what was causing the deaths,I dont know if it was definatelly the Bactyfec,, or if the deaths would have stopped anyway, but it may be worth trying?
 

Chinadog

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Do you think they could have picked up a pathogen that is being harmlessly carried by another species you keep?
 

bellabelloo

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Thanks for your your comments, they are very much appreciated.
It has been rather a frustrating and sad time, it is the not knowing what has gone so wrong that I find very hard to deal with. This seems to have affected the largest animals first so maybe it was something to do with them needing a terrestrial phase, they did have a land area to go onto to they chose to spend time more aquatic. I also wonder if there had been something in the worms that maybe built up over a period of time, that may explain why the largest died first.
Visually the bodies looked generally fine, maybe a little pale. The eyes looked a little swollen prior to death. There was no other swellings or discharges from any of them.
I have considered this may be a pathogen that has been transferred to them by another species. I do use a set of 'tools' just for them, but maybe that was not enough.
This morning I still have three survivors. They are in a more terrestrial set up with a water bowl and leaves to hide under. I have added lots of white worm as I am loathe to use the current supply of earthworm. I have everything crossed with the hope these last three survive.
 

Ian T

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Sorry to hear this and good luck with the final 3, as you know I had some die last year, I think mine were due to a soil substrate gone bad and now understand the attraction of bare-bottomed tanks.
 

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I'm very sorry to hear about your losses!
I raise granulosa every year and my experiences are almost the same as Jane has described above. It is possible to have unexpected losses in every stage of rising them and they stay terrestrial for about 18 to 24 month. I was quite surprised as Patrick told me his stayed aquatic (I've seen the animals in Gersfeld, they were much bigger than my terrestrial raised of same age). I've tried to get granulosa juvies back to water early and it always leads to the death of the animals, but it wasn't as you described, mine always wanted to leave the water and refused food most of the time, after a while they started to devellop skin problems, if this happens there is no chance to save them even in a terrestrial setup. But they never died as fast as you described.

So I can't tell any reason for your losses, but I think giving them a more terrestrial setup is a good chance. Has their skin changed since they are terrestrial? Skin problems often start at the tip of tail are those ok with your animals? Have you really seen them eating the earthworms you were feeding them?

Just some thoughts, I hope the remaining three will make it!
Greetz Fabian
 

bellabelloo

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I lost another yesterday and I am pretty sure the other two won't live. I added Bactyfec to their water this morning, but I fear it is too late.

After your comments Fabian, I took a closer look. Right away I could see one has swollen eyes. Looking closer it has a pale discolouration around it's nose and a patch of similar mid tail. The second has similar.

With regards to the earthworms, they had fed on small cut up earthworms for over a month. previously it had been daphnia and whiteworm.
 

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bellabelloo

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I still have two survivors and they have improved a little.

When the last one died I noticed the other two had swollen eyes so I had expected them to die too. One became very pale and seemed to have fluid inside its belly. I returned them to their medicated water bowl as often as I could. Friday night I was horrified when I saw one that seemed to have a massive ulcer developing along its back, I decided to leave it for 24 hours to see what would happen, but there was no change in appearance. The following 24 hours it shed its skin and visually it looks a lot better, but maybe a little pale still.

Thank you to everyone who offered advice, it has been very much appreciated.
 

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How are the two survivors doing? I really hope they've pulled through.
 

bellabelloo

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The two survivors are merrily stomping around their little tub looking healthily plump and both are eating well:D I am feeling a lot more optimistic now and shall move them from their current set up to a soil based one at the weekend.
All the other caudates seem fit and well so hopefully whatever the illness was remained contained.
 

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The two survivors are merrily stomping around their little tub looking healthily plump and both are eating well:D I am feeling a lot more optimistic now and shall move them from their current set up to a soil based one at the weekend.
All the other caudates seem fit and well so hopefully whatever the illness was remained contained.

Thats great news
 

Ominojacu

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The symptoms sounds like a Protozoan infection. I would treat with Metronidazole, you can find this as a fish medication for hole- in the-head disease. Hexamita ovatus, Karotomorpha swezyi, and Tritrichomonas augusta are common in this salamander.
 

bellabelloo

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A couple of photo's from earlier today.

I shall have a google Ominojacu :)
 

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Chinadog

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They look like they're out of the woods now, don't they? To me their body/head shapes look slightly different, It would be a kinda happy ending if you have a pair, wouldn't it? :)
 

bellabelloo

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They have now been moved onto a soil based set up. They spent the first hour or so delicately tip toeing through the moss but have now settled. They become quite spoiled now and are tweezer fed.
 

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bellabelloo

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Someone waiting for dinner ...
 

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