Neurergus kaiseri prices

And remember; just because something exists doesn't mean we have a right to keep it. We (the newt hobby) have pretty much proven that we don't deserve kaiseri at this point by practically driving them to extinction. So l think this is our chance to prove otherwise.
Click to expand...


Great point!!!! Could not whole heartedly agree with this statement anymore. Though if the species were to fall out of the hobby but continued to exist in the wild then what would be the problem here? Everyone says they practice ecological responsibility with their animals so why not leave this one alone. If someone was poaching benders for sale would there not be a lot of hue and cry here? From what I have read the kaseri are illegal to export from Iran. So what is the difference? Is it because its Iran? Personally I hope the hobbyist breeding program takes off and works but I just believe it has to many variables and moving parts to work as intended.

Some species were not meant to be kept or tamed by man.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for that post onetwentysix. I think I understand the opposing point of view on price control a little bit better as a result.

On another note, I was just over at KS, which I don't visit all that often. However, I saw a posting for "fancy" tigers. Of all the postings, I was drawn to click on that link because of the "fancy". Which, reminded me of the previously posted article in this thread and the lure of "rarity". We are such funny beasts.
 
Actually, this newt could have been a great addition to the hobby without harming wild populations. Check out the story of the crested gecko(or even N. strauchii), or a few other rare animals that are now widely sold in captivity. But greed and mass collecting could mean the story has a bad ending. I agree with Nate, whoever gave this newt such a high $$$ value in the first place is mostly to blame.
 
onetwentysix said:
I don't agree with the pricing on CB kaiseri, though. $5 is just too little; it just generates more demand than it reduces. ... A price between $20-30 seems more reasonable. Frankly, I don't see any reason the vast majority of captive bred salamanders should be sold for much more than $30;
...
If we as a hobby decide to start selling kaiseri for $30 each, I think we could really make a decent difference.
Click to expand...

Thank you for making that point, Peter. It has been in my mind while reading this discussion and I kept wanting to say that, but ... just didn't. Now that you have, I want to agree. It seems like the average price for "exotic" newts is around $30 or $35 and I think that would be a better price for these animals, keep them in range with all the other newts.
 
I'm personally thinking more in the range of 15-20 euro/dollar. I believe that is the average price you pay for CB animals here. I agree that 5 euro/dollar is too cheap.


I'm currently in the planning phase of a serious attempt to set up a breeding programme in europe. I have placed a wanted ad in the european wanted section to ask for eggs or juviniles to get me started. I'm not buying animals for the current market price, since I'll be needing a good starting group. If I buy them for around 100 euro a piece, it'll cost me a fortune. Since I'm just an ordinary guy, I don't have that kind of money, nor am I willing to pay it.
I'm setting up a website at the moment to explain what I have in mind at the moment.
I know it's going to be difficult to even start out, since people are likely to be hesitant to give away potential gold-mines, but I'm going to give it a shot anyways.
If you're interested of have questions, don't hesitate to pop me a PM or something.

As said in a previous post, we, the hobbyists, are the leading cause of the fact that they are almost extinct. I think it's only right that the hobby attempts do undo the damage.
 
whilst mulling over the idea of certain caudata.org members valiantly forming a coalition for the preservation of this species, i thought of the futility of it actually succeeding.

which led me on to think, if we could raise a few hundred dollars for amphibian ark, couldnt we start a charity fund for a N.Kaseri breeding progect, and then use this money to fund several different colonies that trusted and capable members could use?

i personally do not want to breed them as im in a state of spacial economic crisis :)rolleyes:) how ever, so long as i knew that the funds were being spent correctly i wouldnt mind donating towards it at all.

its just an idea, but think over it John, Jennewt, Otterwoman ect.
 
I say we cut out the middleman and support each other in a breeding project, which Jennewt is trying to do for here in the states. What she needs is the cb eggs/juvies, and other (trusted and capable) breeders to join with her. It doesn't get more concrete and hands-on than doing it ourselves. And Damian, and maybe others, are trying to do in Europe.
 
marco said:
couldnt we start a charity fund for a N.Kaseri breeding progect, and then use this money to fund several different colonies that trusted and capable members could use?
Click to expand...
It might indeed be possible to raise money for this cause - the sentiment of your post is kind and noble. But money isn't what is needed. At a price like Onetwentysix is suggesting, these animals would easily make enough profit to cover what it costs to raise them. What is needed is "good will" on the part of the people who have kaiseri offspring. Unfortunately, I think most of them don't understand that this species is different, or they believe it's impossible to affect market prices. Indeed, any one breeder alone can't make much impact, but I do think that several acting together could.
 
This sounds like a valid plan. I have been following this thread pretty closely and am very happy to see a solution to a problem forming. I volunteer anything I can do to help.
 
Jennewt said:
any one breeder alone can't make much impact.
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree...

fishkeeper said:
Check out the story of the crested gecko(or even N. strauchii)
Click to expand...

The perception in the US is that strauchii is an affordable species, easily obtained as cb. That's probably down to one wonderful person (no offence to other strauchii breeders in the US). In Europe however strauchii sell for the same, if not more than kaiseri and at the moment are much harder to obtain (why do they not get smuggled in the same way?).

At a geographical level one person can have a big impact.
 
kaiseri are on a British based website now: "£70 CB 09 individuals from Germany". Good luck to all those who are thinking about this captive breeding co-oprative. We can only hope that it works! I know that it isn't under the same threats as N. kaiseri, but there is the precedant out there with T. karelinii thanks to some dedicated breeders, the market is flooded with CB animals. (or it was the last time I checked, which was quite a while ago!)
 
I know this is a late post but *website link removed* is selling "captive bred adults" for $129.95. They are selling wc Salamandra.s.atra an astonishing $259.99!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Despicable...
There is a need for laws to illegalize WC ilegal animals. If the animals keep becoming legal once they leave the homeland, people will continue profoting from it´s collection...

By the way, S.atra is it´s own species, it´s not a subespecies of S.salamandra...just to clarify...
 
azhael said:
By the way, S.atra is it´s own species, it´s not a subespecies of S.salamandra...just to clarify...
Click to expand...

AJ can't help it- he got that from the site, which is very bad at providing the proper Latin names of the Caudates it sells. The site also charges ridiculous amounts of money for animals and shipping (1-6 animals, next day service is $49.95!). Yikes...
 
It has taken me well over an hour to read over this, and I have skimmed over some areas just to get to this point. I would like to say that there is growing national interest in this newt. National Geographic is focusing one of it's future articles on the declining state of the world's amphibians and it is likely that this newt will be featured.

It is a grave state that wild populations do not have the proper protection. I have a hard time blaming the importers though. There are some regulations that are just not being enforced, as well as the general community needing to put their foot down and say that enough is enough with the wild caught imports. Having been in the dart frog community for quite some time, these prices do not seem ridiculous for these animals. Even in the dart community you will see prices fall as they become more readily available, whereas the harder to breed species do maintain their higher price tags. The biggest difference with dart frogs is the amount of regulation is on the exportation of these gems. Although it is true that N. kaiseri deserves to be put on the CITES I listing, in the case of dart frogs, the government involved in permitting exportation does not need to put species on the CITES list to control how many are allowed out of the country. The dart frog community is 95% captive bred at this point, without having the prices fall to $5 each.

I agree with onetwentysix and otterwoman. Pricing this animal at $5 each will only increase the problem, not help it. If you really think about it, the percentage of animals that are sold at $5 each that actually live to reproduce will probably be 1 in 1000. At that price everyone and their cousin buys them for their 7 yr old and they die within 6 months. Pricing them at $150 each is extremely high, but I've seen dart frogs go for more.. I've paid more for them. Price them at $30-60 and the people that are interested in breeding them can afford them and continue producing them. Some still get out there and never reach their reproductive potential, but a far smaller percent.
 
John,

the first imports of adult kaiseri were sold here in Europe at 250 Euro per head. Prices for cb dropped from 100 in 2005 to about 50 Euro now in average here in Europe, some even sell at 40, some still ask 60. Adults are traded at about 120-150 Euro still. As kaiseri is a fairly easy to keep and breed species I expect prices for juveniles to drop to a basical of 25 Euro within 2010 or 2011. Other than laoensis which is a pest to raise the fry and which will stay more expensive for several years.

Steffen
 
I saw captive bred for sale on this site just 2 months ago for 65 dollars. The fact that they mostly sell for around 80-120 dollars is a double edged knife. On one hand it makes captive breeding them profitable. So people will be encouraged to breed these newts. It also makes them more likely to be collected from the wild. But then again the more people out there that are breeding them the lower the price will be. We just need people to stay away from wild caught adults. The more cb animals that become available the easier this will be to encourage.
 
I read the first and last page of this thread, didn't have time to read everything in between so I apologize if I mention anything previously stated.

I am a college student, and I have wanted some newts of my own ever since I visited my older sister's college apartment and saw her California newts. I was intrigued by the looks of the Iranian/Kaiseri newts and the fact that they appear more shy than California newts.

I looked for over a year before I found someone who had some CB juveniles for sale. Their asking price was $125/ea, but as I was hoping to be able to breed some to give to my older sister and a few close friends I was able to work out a deal for 4 of them (hoping that improved my chances at getting at least one of the opposite sex) for $400 total (express shipping). This was back at the beginning of May.

I had no problem paying that price, as I had looked FOREVER for these little guys. I may not know all the technical terminology or have much experience raising newts, but I have found these little guys to be a very worthwhile investment as I can watch them swim and crawl around and never get tired of it, and when I have guests that would like to see them they are always intrigued by the beauty of the newts.
They are some of the easiest creatures to take care of that I've ever seen. Maybe I'm not doing it by the book (which has a bunch of conflicting information anyway), but they have been growing steadily and seem to be reasonably healthy.

My main point that I'd like to get across is this: it doesn't seem like there are enough people breeding these to expect the ones who do so successfully to just hand them over for cheap pet store prices. I'd love to see the prices drop, and I do not condone illegal smuggling of wild animals, and I enjoy my newts.

I hope to continue learning how to better help my little guys (I'm hoping my hunch of one male and three females is correct) continue to grow and hopefully down the road have some cute kids as my sister and her husband love these newts.
 
I wonder, have we as a community done anything to better the position we were in 1.5 years ago since this thread was made? Or has the call for members with "good will" fallen on deaf ears? :confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    There are no messages in the chat. Be the first one to say Hi!
    Back
    Top