So far no morphing

Sarramy

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After finding out that my wild type axolotl was actually a tiger salamander I became rather anxious for it to morph. I've been taking a bunch of pictures and I don't see any changes so far. I just wish I knew how much longer before it would happen. Yeah, I'm not terribly patient. :p

So I figured I'd start this thread and post pictures from time to time in the hopes that if it starts to morph, but I miss the signs, someone here will recognize what's going on. :D

Today's pics:
 

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schmiggle

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Posting pictures every day is the best way to make it feel like your salamander is taking as long as possible. :p

But in all seriousness, there are some tiger salamander populations that are neotenic (I don't know why), so you may be waiting a very, very long time.
 

Sarramy

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Well maybe not *every* day. :p I tend to take a lot of pictures though so I figure I might as well post.

And there are some tigers that do that? I did not know that. This whole tiger salamander thing has thrown me for a loop. I just have no idea what to expect.

And on that note... today he hasn't had much appetite, normally I take pictures after I feed him. He still posed for me though.
 

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Sarramy

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Sorry for the double post... I would have edited my last post to add this but apparently there is no way to do that.

So I just was researching a little more and found this tidbit:
"A few populations of Tiger Salamanders in western North America and at high altitudes have a different method of development called "neoteny" or "paedogenesis."

I don't know where this tiger is from but I live in Colorado. I think that counts as western North American and high altitude. Is there anyway to determine what species this is?
 

schmiggle

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I don't know how to tell A. mavortium from A. tigrinum, but both are known to have neotenic wild populations. See:
AmphibiaWeb - Ambystoma tigrinum
And
idahoherps / Ambystoma mavortium, Barred Tiger Salamander
I don't think it looks like, or is likely to be, a California tiger salamander. The tigrinum, at least, seem to become neotenic both through genetic predisposition and through environmental factors, and its posssible mavortium are the same way. I'd imagine that if you wanted it to morph, you could try beginning to lower the water level, and if not, you could keep it the same.
 

Sith the turtle

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Since tiger salamanders show a wide range of colors, it can be hard to identify where your salamander originally came from. It's most likely to come from the range of the Barred tiger salamander, Ambystoma mavitorium, as they are frequently collected from the vernal ponds they were collected from. Again, it is very likely they could be a different type, but A.mavitorium seems most likely. We won't know until it morphs though!
 

Sarramy

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So very confusing!

I checked the links, schmiggle, and if that map is accurate then I live on the line between A.m.nebulosum and A.m.mavortium. So if they were caught locally it seems it could be either. If it was shipped to the shop from elsewhere though then that makes this even more difficult to figure out.

I just need to know which it's going to be, aquatic or terrestrial. Either is fine but I'm currently in a holding pattern on where to move his tank. And someone had suggested that I lower his water level already but now I'm wondering if that's just stressing him out more. If he's not going to morph, or he's not ready, then a higher water level would give him more space, plus be easier to maintain proper water parameters.

I may try calling the shop where I bought him and see if they have any info at least on where he's from but I'm not holding my breath. They sold him to me as an axolotl.
 

Sarramy

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Slaggy hasn't had much of an appetite the last couple days, but I also am getting conflicting info on how much and how often to feed him. So maybe it's not a big deal, maybe he's just not hungry. He's not showing any interest in sitting on the top of the pot (at the level where I lowered the water) but he has taken to sitting on top of the plants. Still completely submerged though.

He wouldn't slow down enough for me to get many pictures tonight.
 

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schmiggle

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You just can't win, can you? :)
But in all honesty, you could probably just try leaving the water level up and letting him do his thing one way or the other. Just basically a guess, but I figure it can't hurt, right? Then you could basically just have your axolotl.
 

Sarramy

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I actually ordered a couple juvie axies and got them a couple days ago. Such cute little things. We're definitely attached to Slaggy so whatever life choice he chooses is fine with us. I just want to know! LOL

He ate a worm today. It put up a heck of a fight though. Took about a full three minutes or more for him to actually eat it. It escaped from his mouth more than once. Feisty little wormy. Hehe Slag won though. So that made me happy.

He was sitting on another plant today. Such a silly Slagathor. lol
 

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Donna001

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Congratulations on getting him to eat a worm. It's often quite fun to watch. It is similar with my juvenile axolotls, but with the mature ones it's more like a disappearing act. It's magic.
Also glad to hear that you have managed to get some juvenile axolotls. What have you got? Will you post some pictures?
Your salamander is a handsome fella though, lovely markings. :happy:
 

anonymoose

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Well maybe not *every* day. :p I tend to take a lot of pictures though so I figure I might as well post.

And there are some tigers that do that? I did not know that. This whole tiger salamander thing has thrown me for a loop. I just have no idea what to expect.

And on that note... today he hasn't had much appetite, normally I take pictures after I feed him. He still posed for me though.

The patterns showing on his skin are beautiful. My Tiger salamander had recently morphed, and still has yet to show signs of a confirmed adult pattern.​
 

supergrappler

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Hopefully your tiger will be neotenic. Just keep it cool, keep lighting to a minimum and supply plenty of hides.
 

Sarramy

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I got 2 golden albino axies. Super cute little things. I do wish now that I'd bought two of different colors. I can't tell them apart. LOL They are about 3-4 inches currently. I need to change out the substrate in their tank though. I wasn't thinking about it but with their coloration and the color of the sand it makes taking pictures difficult. Everything looks yellow. Heh.

Slaggy ate another worm today. It didn't put up as much of a fight this time. I do also give him feeder fish from time to time (from a reliable source, no parasites), and occasional cubes of blood worms, mysis shrimp, and beef heart, so to make sure he has a varied diet.

I have also found differing info about how cool to keep the tanks. One page I read said between 60-64, another said 65-68, and another said between 65-72. Kind of a wide range. Mine tends to run between 64 at night to 68 during the day.
 

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Donna001

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I love the pictures of Slaggy with the worm poking out of his mouth. That made me chuckle. Congratulations on getting him to eat, he really is a handsome fella.
Your axis are very cute. They are quite adorable at that age/size. Perhaps you will be able to tell them apart from the iridophore patterns on their sides, for example I'd say that the last 2 pictures are of the same axolotl because I think I can see the top part of a circular "sunshine" pattern of iridophores just behind his front leg. It may just take some time and getting used to them before you can tell them apart.
Best of luck with all of your little ones. :happy:
 

Sarramy

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I love the worm pictures too. Looks like he's sticking out his tongue. lol He's such a funny little guy. My husband was moving around some decorations and he came up and sat on his fingers. So cute!

And yeah, that is the same axie in both the last pictures. That's a good observation about the sunburst pattern. I have been wanting to name them but it seemed kind of pointless if I couldn't tell them apart, so that helps a lot. :) Thanks!
 

AmbystoMan

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Hello from France,

Your salamander is very nice,

according to me it's a blotched tiger salamander, ambystoma mavortium MELANOSTICTUM,

^^
 

Sarramy

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Ah now that could be. I did try calling the shop and they, of course, had no idea. So your guess could very well be correct. It does kind of sound like Slag. :) Thanks.
 

Sarramy

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Still no signs or morphing but he's still just as cute at ever. :)
 

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    Thank you, I appreciate it. I'll look up ammonia and nitrate lockers, and see if I can find someone who can help me with cycling the tank with her in there. She still is looking and acting ok so I hope everything turns out ok. Thanks for the advice
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    Hey @Junaz. It appears your tank is uncycled. You'll need to purchase a source of ammonia (i.e., Dr. Tim's Aquatics ammonium chloride) to cycle the tank with. Dose the tank up to 2ppm (bottle says 4 drops/gal=2ppm. This is false. 2 drops/gal=2ppm) daily until you've build up a bacteria colony that is able to convert 2ppm of ammonia into 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite in 24hr. You'll want to tub your axolotl immediately and while you cycle as these levels are extremely toxic. To tub, just use a food-grade tub large enough for the axolotl to extend itself and turn around in, and perform daily 100% water changes. Make sure your water is dechlorianted (and make sure your dechlorinator has no aloe or iodine, both of these are toxic to axolotls). If you have any more questions about cycling or axolotls, PM me :)
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    Hi, Im fairly new to keeping axolotls. I have to lil buddies that I got a few months back. They were doing fine, up until a month ago when one got fungus in his gills. Took him out to fridge him, then the other guy got it too. I'm currently fridging both and doing salt baths for one (not enough fridge space to keep that much pretreated water for both at the same time). Its been hard to tell if its helping or not and then about a week and half ago one of my axies had a bunch of weird white goop in the water. I immediately changed it, happened a tiny bit again, then seemed to be okay. I had returned him to the tank, but it happened again. Back to the fridge but wanted hear from people who knew more
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    I have pictures. Tried looking through other peoples questions, but couldnt find the same white goop.
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    @Kailynom My cousin (who i got my baby axies from) had the same problem. She developed an allergy to the bloodworms she was feeding them and it got really bad. To the point where her throat would close up just being around the bloodworms. Happened within a few months. Be safe :)
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  • madcaplaughs:
    @MadamePirateOwl Fridging is best left to life-or-death situations, and salt baths are unnecessarily harsh, stressful, and abrasive. I'd suggest doing tea baths instead (using caffeinated black tea, where the only ingredient is black tea).
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    so no idea what the goop is?
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  • madcaplaughs:
    Hard to tell without a photo, but might be algae or fungus floating. Water changes will take care of that.
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    It definitely came from the axolotl. Looked to be mixed into poo the first time. Can I post the photos here?
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    Im not actually sure how i would post it. It seems to want a link
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    Its fairly thick and chunky
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    (Also thanks for your patience and help!)
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  • madcaplaughs:
    You could always upload the photo to imgur and link it back here
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    The second image was how it looked the first time, it was mixed with some other poop like stuff. after that its been small and without the poopy stuff
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  • madcaplaughs:
    The second photo looks reminiscent of partially-digested worms, though I've never seen anything like that. Have you checked your parameters lately?
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    Right now theyre in smaller tubs that i do daily water changes in
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    I'll admit Ive bought test strips but they havent come in yet
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    I use Prime to dechlorinate the water, which was recommend by the girl I got them from
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  • madcaplaughs:
    For now I'd tub the axolotl and do daily 100% water changes until you're able to test your parameters
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  • madcaplaughs:
    I'd also recommend ordering a liquid test kit such as the API Freshwater Master Test Kit since strips are generally unreliable and inaccurate.
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  • MadamePirateOwl:
    Okay, thank you for your help and advice :)
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    anybody growing tylototriton?
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    k.em: anybody growing tylototriton? +2
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